E009 - Bella Pagapong Talks International Nursing

James Doran (00:06.798)

the expat pod. My name is James, your host and today I'm with Bella. Hello. Please give yourself a, tell everyone what you do and why you're here. I am a nurse for profession. I work as a clinical practice educator. So instead of working with patients in A &E, what I do is I train nurses in A &E, but that wasn't my job when I first came to the UK.

My first job was as a ward nurse, but that was, let me say more than eight years ago. So that's been a while. Same time. I also have an online business, in network marketing, my affiliate marketing, and the plan is for me to go full time on that at some point. Nice. And where is it you, you, came from originally? So from the Philippines. Great. And so you've been with eight years. Yeah, more than eight years. Well, we'll go into section one, which is all about getting there.

James Doran (01:05.038)

So welcome to section one of the podcast. What about getting there? So you said you were from the Philippines. So what was it like when you first moved? Did you have a job in mind? Did you find a job or what made you want to leave home? I already had a job. I was already recruited even before coming to the UK because to come here being somebody from the Philippines, you can't just come have a visa, all that long process and...

papers from the nursing and midwifery council with a lot of paperwork. Yeah. So why I wanted to come, it was the opportunity that was available. I knew that I didn't want to stay in the Philippines forever. I became a nurse to be able to live and work in another country. I just knew I meant to stay back home and there's a lot of growth that comes with it anyway. I don't regret doing it. I think it's a huge chance. And you talk about the visa stuff.

How long was that process and I guess the qualification checks you had to do as well, what was that like? let me see. A few months, I would say. A few months. I can't remember now because this was eight years ago. Let me see. I arrived in 2015, maybe late 2014. I knew I was going to have this job. Was it late 2014 or mid 2014? So a good four to six months, I would say, from me being interviewed.

for the job until me flying to the UK, quite a while. And you said you were headhunted or did you apply for it? So my details were already with an agency that helps nurses come to the UK. So they already had my details. So they just invited me for an interview and I got the job. I had to fly from one island to the other for that. wow. Yeah.

big set for interview. Yeah, it wasn't in my local area. And even my medical checks, I had to fly from Cebu to Manila, which is a pain. And one of the reasons why most nurses would like to leave the country is because the pay is so so bad in the Philippines. It's just not a good place to stay if you really want to elevate your life, I would say, financially. Yeah. So yeah, that's why everyone.

James Doran (03:25.101)

everyone but most people who are nurses in the Philippines would really leave because the pay is really bad it is a developed country so you could imagine the pay is nothing like it is here. Yeah would you give some advice to nurses in the Philippines then to put the CVs on the site that you had or the agency you used if they want to leave? So I used an agency called ASC Global and I'm not sure if they're still existing.

But they were very good. I mean, if they're still existing, I would definitely recommend them because they've taken care of us really well. You know, from, from interview to all those application on paper from visa and just giving us all the information we need until we fly a flu to the UK. So yeah, they really did take care of us really well. my cousin used them before May, so she was already here.

level of trust for this agency and I just don't have the knowledge right now if they still exist but more than eight years ago. If they do I'll put a link in the show notes for people to access it and then they can... It's a e -global and my advice for nurses in the Philippines I know it's not gonna be

I mean, the government's not going to be very happy with me saying like, come abroad or something. That would mean there won't be enough nurses back home. And I've even heard that the government is trying to limit the number of nurses being sent abroad. And I don't know if that's possible because maybe they're making it harder, I guess, to leave the country, which I think is unfair. Yeah, it's basically being detained because you've got the amazing skill. I mean,

I don't know the specifics, but this is hearsay. Who has an agency here in the UK, an agency that helps people from the Philippines come to the UK via the route or the caregiver route. So my advice is if you want to leave the country, I would say go for it. And I know.

James Doran (05:37.485)

It's better to leave probably when you're not married yet and you don't have children because it's harder because then you're leaving your family. Although there is the option of bringing your family here and I'm still single, which made it so much easier for me. Child care here is very expensive. It's not going to be like home where there's always family around to take care of kids. Yeah, that's what I've looked at as well. In Sweden, child care is free.

wow. And that helps both parents go back to work and have careers, which is great as well. Because yeah, looking at the UK, so my friend has just told me he's expecting a child and he's looking at £300 a month for a nursery fees. It's still not as much as I've heard other people say, but it's still a lot of money to add on. It's the same price I was paying for a car when I was in the UK, which is, you know, it's...

quite a big expense you have to think about. That's not even including like looking after food and clothes and everything else. yeah, yeah. Also that's wonderful. I don't really know much about Sweden. Do people speak English there? Do they all speak English? Yeah, better than we do. Better than I do especially because like you're taught it from a young age and you're taught it properly whereas for me I was just able to speak it so I don't really pay attention in English class.

So my grammar is probably worse than most people who speak it as a second language because you had to study it and pass exams in it was I was like, yeah, I can get my grade and go to the next thing. So I was always maths and physics was what I enjoyed. So my brain works that way. But yeah, everyone speaks English, which is a shame because I'm trying to learn Swedish and I'm doing lessons and things, but it's really difficult. So when you first move, it's pretty good because...

You can do everything without having to think too much because everyone just switches into Swedish or English. You just say engelska means English and you can then people will realise you're not you're not going to speak Swedish So as an ignorant English person, it's quite useful. I think if you speak English well, then you're fine as well There is an issue now though because obviously Sweden are very welcoming of refugees So they have also have free Swedish classes called SFE for everyone.

James Doran (07:56.429)

who's come and you have the opportunity to learn the language and then you can integrate into society. But I imagine if you, these people are coming from like war -torn parts of the world into Sweden and I don't know if they will be able to speak English or Swedish, so their home language is what they speak, which is why they do these free Swedish classes to help, you know, get everyone to have a great standard of living, which is why I think it's a really good system they've got. But...

Yeah, Sweden is really, really nice. I quite like it here. But nice, nice. I came for work as well. Thank you. I had a job beforehand and it was relatively seamless. Part from I needed a visa because of Brexit. yeah. And that was an absolute nightmare to do. I know. Yeah. Yeah. My girlfriend still lives in the UK. So when she comes over, she can only be here for 90 days every six months. Okay.

They're always checking her passport now for stamps and how long she's been here for, which is quite, can be quite a headache. Have you been here for too long? Yeah, I guess that's the effect of Brexit, isn't it? Yeah, it's things people didn't think about, like people and people got it wrong massively, I think so. But yeah, what we can do is look forward and okay, we made a mistake. People were told lies probably, but.

There's no point saying, that was so wrong back then. It happened. Let's just go and find a solution to make it better. You know, seven years ago we voted for it. I know it's been a while. Yeah. I mean, I couldn't vote yet when it was rolled out for voting anyway. Now I am British, which means that I will need less of that visa when I move around the world. But obviously now with Brexit will be the same thing. I'll need a visa. Yeah.

Well, to travel is fine, like as to be a tourist, but if you want to move to work, yeah, yeah. It's going to be more. And then before you moved to England, did you have a combination sorted or did the agency help you out with that as well? Yeah, yeah, they did. They prepared accommodation for us, which we stayed in for three months for our own accommodation, which was all right anyway.

James Doran (10:16.909)

That's really handy because one thing I've noticed here that didn't stress apart for me was finding somewhere to live when I moved. Which was quite helpful having three months of it sorted for you. It might help you, don't mean you can find some friends who are doing a similar thing and then find somewhere together if you needed to do something. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that's why I'm saying that they really did take care of us. So.

And I think it's the same for most NHS nurses who come here because I do take care now of nurses that are just coming from whichever country they're from to A &E. And I know that accommodation has been prepared for them at least for a few months or they can even stay there if they want. It's usually hospital accommodation. And you said the country so it's not just Philippines who can use the service, is it international and they're called global, I guess? For...

For which one? For the NHS? Yes, for moving as a nurse to the UK. Yeah, it's very international. You'll probably find a Filipino nurse anywhere all over the world. One of your biggest exports is nurses. I think, yeah, not just nurses, but a lot of, yeah, definitely a lot of... Any skilled jobs. Great, well, we'll see for section two about...

James Doran (11:41.837)

Welcome back and welcome to section two of the podcast all about being there, which is where we asked our guests all about how their first impressions were and anything that was different from society. So Bella, what was your first impression of when you landed in the UK? What did you think? What was the first thing you did? So I landed in Gatwick in January, which is the middle of winter. Coming from a tropical country and coming out of Gatwick.

airport with a negative four degrees celsius temperature it was just like very assaulting i guess as you walked out the door i was like my god this is too much so all of us all of us felt that we didn't really wear enough clothes so we were literally going into our luggages and getting some more extra clothes on and

Because we had to take our photos and we all had to wait for all our luggages to get into the bus and there was like 50 of us, that's a lot of people. So it took a while. So it was really really cold. That made me think, I mean, why did I even come here? Was it really worth it? Is this gonna be my life forever? I'm gonna be cold all the time. That's how I felt moving further north.

So yeah, I thought that it was too cold, it was really cold. And then the drive to London wasn't really that cheerful, I would say. And there's nothing pretty about it. It was like, my God, like there was just this sinking feeling on the drive to London. Anyway, we went to a hospital called Queen Elizabeth Hospital, which is in Woolwich.

There was nice because they gave us an orientation, sort of like an introduction about what we were getting ourselves into. And there was a little bit of get together. So the nurses, the Filipino nurses that were already here, I mean, that came before us a few months ago, maybe three months ago, they set up a little bit of food and drinks just to welcome us. So that was nice. That was nice.

James Doran (14:00.525)

And lucky for me, I already had a good friend who was already here, gave me a few gifts. The trust also gave us sort of like a starter pack with duvets. that's very kind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really good because my trust right now doesn't actually do it. But our trust did that for us. You know, they gave us like a pack with like oyster cards, like a tube map, you know, just a little bit of like some help with logistics and things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And.

At that time, I didn't know that I needed a good smart phone. My smartphone wasn't a very good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, my life back home wasn't like that. I wasn't, I didn't always have internet connection. So I didn't realize that here I needed to have that in order to navigate and everything. So yeah, that was an issue. So for the first maybe few months here.

I relied on everyone else to help me get around except for walking to work because let me see. No, I knew how to walk to the hospital and back home. But other than that, I didn't really travel anywhere else because I was too scared. Unless there was somebody who had a proper phone. Yeah. Cause I had to, you know, wait to get paid to get like a proper smartphone. Cause yeah.

I didn't know before coming that I absolutely needed a smartphone. Yeah, that's a good point. I thought the UK wasn't so bad. We still have cash, but in Sweden, there's no cash in life. So everything is cashless and they use an app for it. And my key to my house is on my phone. When I first moved, it's still my problem. I was like, my phone's battery is really bad. And if it dies, I can't get into my house.

I was stressed for about three weeks until I got a work phone which was a Swedish phone. And I was like, okay, put my key on that one as well. So I've got a spare key, which is my other phone. Yeah. It's probably a necessity to always have like a battery pack to charge your phone just in case. Yeah, there's one in my... I haven't used it for a while, which is good. It means I'm planning well, but yeah, it's always with me in case.

James Doran (16:20.141)

I was often asking bartenders if I can put my phone behind the bar to charge when I first moved just because I had about 15 % and I was like, I don't want to go home yet. So hey, excuse me, I'll buy some drinks if I can charge my phone. And that's how I got around the start of it. okay. Which is quite useful. And it's a good way of just practicing some Swedish, I guess. Not an awful lot of it. And on language, obviously...

English people are notoriously bad at speaking other languages. So did you, with your nursing degree or qualifications, was English part of that or was it encouraged to learn English before you came? Yes, I did take an exam called IELTS. Yeah, I can't remember what IELTS was, but it's an exam. And at the time, they had really high standards. So there was...

reading, speaking, listening and writing and you have like at least a seven in each of them. The perfect score is nine. So if you had like a six point something on one of them, you've had to retake them all in order to come to the UK. They've lowered the standards now because they need more nurses. Yeah. Yeah, but... Brexit might have helped as well because we need to get less from the EU. But...

During my time, yeah, that was the standard. It was a really high standard. I think I had some friends who had to take it a few times just to qualify for the UK. I luckily was able to take it just once and that was already good for me to qualify for the UK. And well, English is really a language that I'm very comfortable with. A lot of my jobs back home required me to speak English on the job.

So it wasn't really a big adjustment. Maybe I had to adjust with the different accents here. Every third street is a new accent, I think. Yeah, that was a bit difficult at the start. Just adjusting to all the different accents. And sometimes I've had to say, sorry, what did you say again? I've had to say that repeatedly just so I could understand what people were saying. But as you go...

James Doran (18:41.261)

further and stay longer in the UK, you just accept that it is a very multicultural place. And obviously my job requires me to communicate all the time and you just get used to it. You get more familiar with the different accents and most of the time you understand people now compared to when I first came here. yeah, it was pretty shock because like a lot of my friends who are Spanish or from Latin America and places, even like Germany,

Netherlands, they all learn English but they learn American English because of the media and films and everything and a lot of English publications are all in American English and then you come to the UK and it's like wow they speak completely different and the different words are used it must be quite a shock. Yeah, yeah even the medical terms that we used back home was a bit different because

Like you said, we are used to American English, aside from the fact that we were a colony of the USA at some point. So we do learn American English. British English was quite new to me, really. I like the sound of it. But then I also learned that, you know, the quintessential British accent that most people would know is not really applicable to everyone in the UK. Down to now, but it's not everywhere.

Yeah, yeah, people in the UK have different versions of the accent as well. So that was new to me. I didn't know that. What's your favorite, your biggest change then between the Philippines and England in terms of day -to -day life? You certainly mentioned your phone was a big thing you needed to use. Is there much else? I mean, everything, I think. I mean, I'm definitely more independent here. I'm getting you to...

like the multicultural environment here in London, maybe would have been a little bit different if I were like posted in the countryside, it will be less multicultural. But yeah, being it's like, everywhere there's a different language, there's a different culture, a different religion. And that's something that it was not exposed to back in the Philippines, because pretty much everyone looks the same back home. We all come from the same culture, same religion, same everything. So.

James Doran (20:57.165)

I felt like I was in a bubble for the Philippines and coming here, it just felt like my world expanded. Also, I appreciated that it feels very free here, very, I don't know, more liberated, I would say, in terms of ideas. People are less judgmental to differences. Being in the NHS, I do appreciate the emphasis on equality and diversity.

there are these nine characteristics that need to be protected, which I think is great. I don't remember about us having law regarding that back home, or if we do, I don't know about it. People here have tattoos, which is not common back home. Everyone I know has a tattoo here, and which was surprising for me because I believe back in my nursing practice in the Philippines, we were...

not allowed to have tattoos, we were not allowed to have a different color hair, which is, I think, very silly. So here I state that our individuality is respected at work, you know, well, there are a few rules, obviously, like I have to tie my hair, which is for, which I do understand, but coloring your hair does not really affect the kind of care that you give to a patient or having tattoos. So I saw that the nurses here, the doctors had tattoos. So that was lovely. And even walking around,

London, people don't really take too much notice of you if you're wearing something different. People just leave you to it. You can be whoever you want to be and wear whatever you want. As long as you're not hurting anybody. Recycling here is definitely better. It's not perfect. Wish it was better, but it's definitely better than back home in the Philippines. Like we have better recycling centers here. Obviously the UK is a developed country. So that

of difference. And being able to travel to different parts of Europe is also much easier, obviously, because I live in the UK and I definitely exploited that on my first, probably first and second and third year here. I've kind of gotten over that stage as of now because my priorities are different. So where did you go when you traveled? What were your favorite cities you went to? Yeah, I went to France a few times, Spain.

James Doran (23:19.821)

just anywhere and everywhere really. Yeah, and we've also, my friend and I have also traveled in different parts of the UK, which is wonderful. So yeah, I've been exposed to all these different cultures and different landscapes that are definitely very different from what I was used to back home. Food obviously is different. I thought at first, you know, that British food is quite bland.

Obviously from an Asian culture where like all our food is very much seasoned. But anyway, I've adjusted to everything now and I do appreciate being here a lot. Also, I was shocked that it doesn't snow much in London. My perception was that it would snow everywhere. Yeah, I think it's too... the city is too warm. Yeah, which is a good thing. I appreciate that now, but...

When I arrived during winter, I thought that there'd be snow, because I just didn't know about the differences in places. I just thought that if I was in the West during winter, it would be natural to snow. I didn't know that wasn't applicable to everyone. Yeah, it's surprising because I moved here and it snowed so much since I've been here. There's like 20 centimeters I had the other week, which is a lot.

James Doran (24:43.949)

So hello, welcome back and welcome to section three, which I've not named yet, which I should name the section, but it's all about the review of your time and your recap. So I guess to start off, if you could go back in time eight years and give yourself a bit of advice before you moved, what would you say to yourself? Honestly, I wouldn't change a thing. I think everything that needed to happen happened.

My advice would be to anybody who's looking, is it my advice to somebody coming to the UK? Is that the question? Yeah, well, it's just you personally, what you would tell yourself, whether I guess you would just say live in the moment and keep going as you did. But then what would you tell someone moving away from the Philippines? Okay. Anybody moving away from the Philippines? Well, I'm pretty sure you would be very, very excited. There's just so many opportunities out there.

so many cultures to learn about and so many places to visit. I would say keep an open mind. Yes, you will miss our country. Yes, you will miss the food, but don't close yourself to things that you're familiar with. Definitely open yourself to all the other things that you can encounter in another country, such as the UK. Open yourself to the people here. Hang out with people.

from the same country with the same background and the same language. I would encourage people to explore and get to know other people from different backgrounds because then you would still be in the Philippines most likely. It would feel like then if you just hung out because that was me at the start, obviously. I would say at the start, yes, it is very valuable to find your own community of people.

coming from the same country and culture. It does help you feel less homesick, which I think was valuable for me in my first few years here. But also if that's just where you are all the time, it also prevents you from growing and just learning about people and having more relationships that can be meaningful with other people from different backgrounds. And I'm just at a point right now where...

James Doran (27:06.893)

I'm glad that I've done what I've done before, eight years ago. And I'm glad that I went through everything that I had to go through. I have had no regrets at all. I wouldn't change a thing. I wouldn't really give my old self or my younger self, my younger self eight years ago, any other advice than just live in the moment, like you said, and just take any experience.

as openly as possible. It's not going to be happy all the time, obviously, but you know, things will only go up. That's great. That's some inspiring advice given, which is wonderful. And you mentioned like, about people from the Philippines you met. And you also mentioned about London being so diverse and full of other people. Did that help you settle in much faster? Because it wasn't like you were...

As you say, compared to the countryside, everyone would be kind of the same. We're looking outside. It was very much, this is a, this is a cultural mixing bowl of everyone. So it's really great. Did you feel that? I mean, I never really thought of it that way, but yeah, I guess it did. I mean, cause I could see people from all different parts of the world and yeah, that probably helped me. Cause then not everyone's the same. We're all very different.

And in, in healthcare, yeah, you would be working with all sorts of people, both from the medical side and the patients as well. I definitely use Google translate because some of the patients can't speak English. The Americans have English people to be first. Yeah. Yeah. Cause everyone back home spoke the same language. I never really needed to use anything like Google translate, but here, yeah, you need to use it when you're at work sometimes.

Yeah, I never even thought of that. I use it a lot, mainly because of random words in Swedish, but it's not too much of what I've had to think about, which is quite insane. But yeah. And then what's your favourite place you've been to in the UK? Yeah, if it's England, I would say Lake District, definitely. If it's not raining as well? It rains a lot in Lake District for me. It does, yeah, it does. I have been lucky a few times where the weather's been good.

James Doran (29:31.021)

So yeah, there are really beautiful places in the UK and I do appreciate that. I do like seeing the nature and experiencing it. Another place is Cornwall. Cornwall is really nice as well. Quite hard to get to though. Yeah, from London, yeah, actually. But yeah, it is a wonderful place. Yeah, well worth doing. Yeah, it's warmer as well.

James Doran (29:56.365)

Snowdonia I would say in Wales is very pretty. Yeah, let them change the name now back to its Welsh name or the changing the names of all the Welsh mountains in Snowdonia. Yeah, that's from the anglicized names to the Welsh names. So I need to find out what it's going to be called from now on. That I don't know. I haven't been there. I will be doing the three peaks challenge in June. it's great. I did it. We'll find out if they've changed the name, what the name is now. I did it during Covid.

Three Peaks. cool. Yeah in September 2020 and that was fun. We three of us in a car were meant to go to Italy but that got cancelled so we ended up just driving it in an Audi and doing it in 18, no 22 hours I think it was. wow. With no sleep because we were driving as well. That sounds exhausting. Yeah but and Scarpa Pike in the middle of the night is interesting. Yeah I've done that too Scarpa Pike.

night. Yeah, this is my third attempt because the first and second times that I've tried it, there was always something wrong with either the traffic or the vehicle. Yeah, I think we were lucky because people do it in huge groups. We did it in the thivers. That might have made it easier because buses break down more than cars have noticed. Yeah, yeah. So were you was there a lot of people when you did it or if this was during the

pandemic so it was probably less people. There was three groups I saw doing it when we did it because we did it quite late because these people do it in the longest day of the year because more dayline. We did it in September but there was two other groups doing it with us at the same time. Obviously people can start at different times of the day so you don't see it very well but we saw one group of about seven or eight people and another group of about three or four. We were passing quite a lot up and down the mountains which was quite fun and we saw at the end when we finished.

Then we had some food and they were there so it was quite nice to see how they experienced it compared to what we did. But I think they just fell short of time. They did it in 25 hours. They were quite upset with themselves. Aww, that's alright. It's still an amazing job of doing all three in 25 hours. It's still an incredible feat of things to do. What's your favourite place in London specifically then? You've done England as a whole and London's less hiking but have you ever a favourite spot in London?

James Doran (32:19.213)

Favorite spot in London. I can't decide. You can have more than one. So there is a well anywhere where I can see the St. Paul's Cathedral is really pretty. It's really nice. I like watching it. Very, very touristy. My girlfriend has a walking tour past St. Paul's Cathedral. I've seen it. Tower bridge? Yes.

It's very pretty. and yeah, there's this Albert Bridge. It's not very as famous, but it's very pretty. You can see it from Battersea Park. I'll have to go and take a look. I've probably been over it, but I've probably forgotten the name of it. Yeah. It's obviously not as touristy or as famous as Tower Bridge. Yeah. It's really nice, especially during the night as well when they lighted it all up. wow. Yeah. That's quite West.

I guess, good towards Battersea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One thing I do appreciate about London is there's always a green space near you, which is not the same for when I was back home. I lived in a city and definitely probably the greenest space is my mom's garden. But, you know, so trouble climates you'd expect to be full of greenery and everything else. Which is in the country area. But I lived in a city all my life, so it's different.

I've never appreciated that, which is swimming. It's really interesting. Yeah, yeah. So that's one thing I appreciate about London, because I've been told that in New York, the only green space there is Central Park. I mean, which is very different from London, because London has loads of green space everywhere. And I do appreciate that so much. Yeah, the parks are beautiful. I used to walk through High Park quite a lot when I used to go and then...

Regent Park and St. Augustine's Park which I think is a really nice place to visit. But there's also that place near Follum on the kind of where the river does this weird shape. Near Putney I think it is, which is like going into the countryside you realise you've not left the city. okay. But I can't remember what it's called now, someone will definitely tell me. Yeah it's quite west near Putney but it's like a forest or woods which is very nice to go walking in. Yeah that's interesting isn't it?

James Doran (34:45.517)

how East London is quite connected to the forest. Yeah, you've got Surrey in the southwest, which is peaceful as well, but it's quite far out. Yeah, I mean, I haven't been to that part, but yeah, that would be interesting to visit. Yeah, I mean, London is a huge, huge city. I don't think I've been to every part of it. And there's still always going to be parts of it that I haven't discovered yet. Well, there's more people living in London than in the whole of Sweden.

It's always going to be full of places to find them. Sure. Wonderful. Well, thank you for joining me on this podcast. We'll just do a quick outro and then thank you Bella for joining me on this podcast. It's been great. I've really enjoyed the appreciation of that in Philippines. There was not as much greenery as in London, which is really interesting to me because I had this vision of Philippines being, because it's a tropical climate, as you said, being full of nature all around. So it's quite a...

an insight into something which I've been quite ignorant about. So thank you. It's the whole purpose of this podcast is to learn from other people who've got different backgrounds and lived all over the world, which is what I love. So thank you for that. And I guess it's where can people find your work and find your socials? Yeah, I do have Instagram and TikTok. I can't even remember what I call myself in TikTok, but you can find me on Instagram.

It's belly bone. So that's a B -E -L -L -I -E bone. It's a high school nickname and it's just there. I haven't really changed it. We can put your socials in the show notes as well and we'll put it on Instagram so people can find you. Yeah. Take a look at your content, which is great. Thank you. Wonderful. And thanks so much. And if you did find some information in this podcast, which you wanted a bit more about, please send me a comment. And yeah.

else we'll see you next time for the next episode.