E015 - Leaving Portugal for the UK University Experience with Kate Seabra

James Doran (00:06.51)

Hello and welcome to the expat pod. My name is James, your host. And today I'm joined by my friend Kate, who I've known for a long time. So I think since 2015 or 16, when we were both living in Oxford and we met because I played volleyball for the university and you were still living there after previously playing volleyball for the university. So yeah, if you want to give yourself an introduction, that'd be great. Yeah, thanks.

so I'm Kate and, I guess as, as James said, yeah, we met when I was living in Oxford and I, I'm originally Portuguese. I'm half Portuguese, half Kiwi. So my mom's Portuguese. My dad's from New Zealand. I will caveat this by saying I did live in Portugal pretty much until I was, well, pretty much my whole life until I was 18. but I did spend.

about a month between Australia, New Zealand and America. So my accent is an absolute sort of international mess of an accent, but here we are. Yeah. And yeah, I guess I moved to the UK, which is still where I'm living now. And it's sort of my main experience of living abroad. Wonderful. Thank you for joining me again. And we'll get into the podcast.

James Doran (01:34.382)

Hello, we're going to section one of the podcast all about getting there. So, Kate, this is where we're going to ask you some questions about how you or why you moved or both, why you moved and how you moved to the UK predominantly, because that's probably your most traveling as an adult. I guess the living and moving around New Zealand was, I guess, for holidays with your parents, which we can get into a bit of understanding the cultural differences. Yeah. But let's go predominantly with moving to the UK.

So you moved for studying originally? Yeah. So in a way it's kind of a funny story because I, so as I said, I did all my school in Portugal and like all my classes, everything in Portuguese. And when it came to like deciding like what to study at university, I, I think I told my parents, I wanted to do English literature and they are both English literature lecturers in Portugal and.

They met when they were both actually sort of doing their, sort of post, like, I don't know, doctorates or were, sort of studies when they were both in London. And so when I sort of said, I'd like to study English literature, they were both sort of very much of the opinion that I shouldn't do it in Portugal and that I should move to England and give that a go. And, yeah, I guess I, I figured why not obviously made sense to me. you'd.

Rather than be the big fish in a little pond studying it in Portugal, I'd sort of go and challenge myself a bit and go to the UK where obviously I, at the time, obviously if you think I grew up speaking mostly in Portuguese, my English wasn't necessarily where it is today. So I would only speak in English with my dad when I was back home and being bilingual, naturally I think one language is always a little bit stronger than the other.

But yeah, I felt like, why not? Definitely like up for the challenge. So then I started looking into how, like, what would studying in the UK look like, how to even choose a university? Like what would that actually look like? Process is very different to Portugal. Even timelines of like when to actually like start applying for university. Like, and that was like the main thing that struck me, I think at the time. I think thankfully I decided what I wanted to study and like...

James Doran (04:02.157)

September, October time of my last year at school. And in Portugal to apply for university, you do it after your final exams. You do it in like July, like August time of like your, like after your school's done. So it's like you have your grades, you apply versus - It's quite cool application time then, because they must know like, they've got three A's. Yeah. From here. Yeah. So it's literally like, you have to have like the high, well, like each university has their own -

grading that they would expect for certain degrees. But it's like, okay, you don't really have to worry too much until the end of the year. Versus in England, it was like, okay, you have to apply and then you get a conditional offer, right? Or, and then you have to like maintain those grades or improve those grades. And it just added a massive amount of stress to like that final year of school. And I remember my friends sort of not really understanding, you know, like, you know, why you sort of have to maintain these grades because.

I think like as an international student, they were asking for very high grades as well. which is, I guess it's the English literature as well because English isn't your, well, it is kind of your first language, but they might not know that from Portuguese. Yeah. I had to do the whole like language exam, even with a New Zealand passport. Like it wasn't enough. You still had to like prove that you, I like my English language. It's like American English.

Yeah, they didn't trust that. But yeah, I mean, I guess I sort of narrowed my choices of universities down and my dad and I came over, my dad, my stepmother and I came over and we did a little road trip and like went to all the universities to decide where to like actually even apply to and what I liked. And I remember I didn't even apply to any university in London.

Actually, I made that choice very early on that I didn't see myself moving to London as a first sort of place. And I ended up sort of deciding on Canterbury. Not super well known, obviously, was a bit of a surprise to a lot of people when I said that, but it was mainly because it was quite similar to where I grew up in terms of size of town. It was near a beach, or you know, you could get to the beach on like a short bus trip or like a

James Doran (06:28.877)

10k run if you wanted to. But it was, it was getting back. Yeah. Getting back, you get the bus. but it was, it was like, it was very comparable. Like I could walk everywhere. It felt like very, it was like, it was very, it was like a safe, maybe a comfortable choice, perhaps it was like, it wasn't necessarily going to be a huge leap into like a massive city. It was like campus, university. so it,

all in all, it just sort of ticked all those boxes for me of like jumping into the unknown, but there was enough of like, the known mixed in. The comfortable step. But because I don't know, I've not been to Canterbury. I don't think I have anyway. I've not spent any time in there. I probably didn't throw it on the way to Dover or something. But what part of Portugal are you from then, just for reference? So I'm from a city called Aveiro, and that's sort of between Porto and Lisbon, right on the coast. Like,

beaches 10 minutes away. It's again, the sort of place where you grow up, you walk everywhere. You don't need a driver's license. You can literally just walk over to your friend's place for the most part or cycle over to the beach and it's super safe, super small. You sort of grow up, you know the same people your whole life. You're friends with everyone since preschool up until you graduate. So it's a very...

Yeah, it's a very sort of small city. I would say maybe - Community as opposed to a city. Yeah. I mean, I'd say now I think it's become quite touristy in a way because it has grown, but it was when I grew up, it was, it wasn't like on the map, let's say. So it was small. And just to hop back at one point. So your parents both teach English literature and they're telling you not to study in Portugal. Does not really fill me with confidence that they're good at their job? I think.

In fact, they both said they're the best and I couldn't have them as my lecturers. So I had to go elsewhere. I mean, that's a, that's a good safe. That is literally we can't teach you is ethical. Yeah. That's literally what they told me. Wow. And then, so I guess you obviously moved significantly before breaks happened. So I'm guessing the whole process was quite seamless.

James Doran (08:49.773)

Super seamless. I remember, like, yeah, I got my, yeah, I got like the final offer in from the university. I like accommodation, obviously it was like the first year was on campus with it being like a campus university. So like, you just sort of pick within that. And I literally just, packed two suitcases and my mom flew over with me, helped me set up. And, yeah, I think I sort of moved in maybe on like day one of fresh as we -

Which I had no idea what that was. That was my first cultural shock. And then after Canterbury, did you go home or did you start your masters? Or did you just do something between? Yeah, no, I decided to do my master's straight after. I felt like if I had a break, I probably would never go back to do it. And I think that was probably right. I don't think I would have. So yeah, then I ended up going to Oxford.

so I went to Oxford for my masters and yeah, stayed there for a couple of years as well. It's crazy. It is. It really is. Apart from my, in the country, there was a city to live in. I'd love to live, if possible. Yeah. I wouldn't mind going back. And then after that finding what, how, how was that, what did you have to do in terms of, what was it? so it was, it was an interesting time, I think, because when I,

It literally, the day I graduated from my masters was Brexit day. I remember waking up. Yeah, I genuinely, I remember the day I woke up from my graduation, looked at my phone and I was like, no, cause everyone thought like it's not gonna happen. There's no way. And yeah, so yeah, literally the graduation day was everything everyone was speaking about. Just like Brexit, what does this mean? almost everyone on my course was international. And it was just like, what, what now?

and I remember cause you had to like apply or I think I'd already had like my national insurance to like start working, but it was almost like everything's so unknown that you, I didn't worry to begin with. so I had like my first few jobs in Oxford. I didn't think about any sort of implications. my parents were quite worried. I think they were always like, what does this mean? Are you going to come back?

James Doran (11:13.485)

but ultimately once they sort of then mentioned this sort of settled status or that you could apply for a residency, I remember calling, to like know what do I need to do to get this residency or like settled status or, or whatever it was at the time. And I was told, interestingly, and maybe it still stings a little bit, the way they said it was that I, I had been a burden to the system for the sort of four years when I was studying because I wasn't working.

And I had access to like the NHS. So I wasn't paying any national insurance or anything, which meant that you have to the system. Those years couldn't count towards applying for like the official like settled status or, or anything. So, you know, it's interesting that because I think of like, I get that point of, you know, having income, so you're not paying income tax or nurse insurance, but you're still paying sales tax. You're still paying other taxes. Yeah. And all the money into university.

Exactly, and you are funding an economy in learning and higher education. Yeah. So for me, it feels stupid because also my friend who's sub -african, he got an ancestry visa for the United Kingdom and his master's year counted. I think. Well, interesting because I remember in having a New Zealand passport, I thought, you know, it's like Commonwealth, surely it's easy.

And they said, no, like if anything, it was probably more difficult. And, and I remember even when I once was arriving into Portugal and my Portuguese passport, I think had expired or I was sort of between passports and I didn't even think about it. And I had my New Zealand one and I was at the border control and I showed them that and they're like, well, what are you doing here? And I said, I work here and they're like, well, where's your visa? I don't have one.

Because obviously I mostly travel on my Portuguese passport, so I had to show them the Portuguese ID and they called the manager and then eventually said, like, okay, yeah, you're fine. Next time bring the other passport. Just, you know, even if it has expired, like just make sure you have both. It's just fair. I mean, that is such a, I guess, a unique problem for dual nationality citizens, but one which most people wouldn't have thought about. Yeah. Yeah, you just never know. It didn't even cross my mind. It's like, I...

James Doran (13:36.013)

Yeah, of course. I can't just be in the UK on a New Zealand passport without a visa. To me, it seems bonkers. I know. Same. But yeah, here we are. I've been working now for over five years, so I've got my settled status and I can, what is it, indefinite leave to remain. Would you, I guess, you can't really have a third passport. Would you give one up? No. I wouldn't. I guess the UK one's getting worse or getting less...

Valuable or powerful. Yeah, it doesn't appeal. Doesn't appeal right now. Maybe at some point. Yeah. I can't say if the king could be a reason to. Okay. Well, I think that's unless you have anything more to add of how you got to the UK. I think that's a good a good overall picture of your your life so far. Yeah, I think nothing else.

So welcome back to the podcast and welcome to section two all about being there. So Kate, now we know how you got to the UK. This is where we kind of dig a bit deeper and scratch surfaces and see your opinions of the countries or places you live and kind of just do a cultural comparison from home or from, I guess you can also throw in the cultures within New Zealand that you know of. So let's start with Canterbury. You arrived.

the plane. It's freshers week. What is that like? Because freshers week is mad anyway. Yeah, I am. It was so funny because yeah, maybe even like explain what freshers week is. What would you say it is? It's just a week of madness to begin university life. Normally it's two weeks. So it's not even one week. When it was in Liverpool, I did my bachelors. And it's effectively one big meet and greet because

Usually you've got, I don't know, every single fresh faced 18 year old or 19 year old coming into halls, living away from home for the first time, working out how a pan works or the dishwasher or the washing machine, out to go buy groceries, you know, the usual stuff. And you're thrown in with a lot of people the same age and lots of parties, which are planned for the week. So you spend a lot of money if you're a myth. Yes.

James Doran (16:01.549)

Yes, that's basically what it was. I, so I remember, yeah, my mum and I arrived and we sort of, I don't know if we maybe had a day where we sort of went like shopping, you know, I guess I didn't have like pillows or I didn't come over with any bedding and you had to like pick up all of that stuff. But I remember actually before I moved being like an international university, they'd like paired me with like another international student. So like we could have like one person we each knew.

like arriving at university, even like we weren't on the same course or anything. And in a way it was a way of like, you know, what, what, what accommodation have you gone for or, you know, what, are you going to get the wristband for the freshers? We, and, it's literally stuck in my head because I remember, as I said, I didn't really know what it was. I remember, you know, it said like, yeah, a lot of parties and this and that, and, and it felt like, I guess I can decide each day if I want to go.

And she, this other girl I had spoken to, she said, I'm not going. I don't see the point. And, and when I arrived, I think it was the biggest mistake was not getting that respite. because you immediately felt a little bit left out. so I think when I moved, obviously living in halls, you sort of lumped in with like, I think I was with like six other people. and everyone's like super different. I think.

I think everyone I lived with was English. Actually, everyone, no, there was one German guy. Everyone else was actually English. So for them, it was all expected. And I remember like that first day and first night, I sort of, I literally didn't even know what was going on. You know, like where, where's, what's happening? Like what, what is this? What are you guys doing? And I, it was all a bit scary actually. I remember obviously my mum had left and you sort of left alone and I'm sure.

probably the same feeling that regardless of having moved from another country, it still feels a bit daunting to be have your own little room with these other strangers and sort of breaking the ice and getting to know everyone. But yeah, Freshers Week was a learning curve. It was really good. I think I understand why English universities do that. Like Freshers Week to break the ice, you get everyone sort of...

James Doran (18:20.749)

to let loose a little bit, get to know the people they live with. You learn, as you said, all those sort of things. You sort of ease into university life and that sort of life of living for the most part by yourself. Yeah. Usually it's a good, I guess the fresh week for me was about 10 days before my first class. Yeah. So it meant if you moved city or country, you kind of knew how to live. Yeah.

Exactly. So it was like the sort of time where you suddenly get, you have enough time to sort out like the admin things. So when I moved, I didn't have an English bank account. And I remember, I remember that was actually quite difficult because I needed to have proof, like a sort of letter or something with my address and I didn't have it. And, and then obviously every other 18 year old is getting a bank account having moved.

A lot of people abroad, it was a lot of people that were international at this university. And I had like a wait time of like a week or so, or maybe it was two weeks to actually get a bank account. And you know, it's things that maybe this was like 2011, right? So I guess now with things like Monzo and Revolut and all these things, it wouldn't be an issue. I mean, that's how I survived here was because it took me four months to get a bank account in Sweden.

Yeah, it was mad. It was something I'd never even considered. So that in itself, you know, you have a week to be like, okay, what do I need to figure out? What do I need to do? And by the time classes start, you're like, okay, I sort of know my way around. I, you know, some familiar faces around me doesn't feel as scary. But yeah, I remember, I think when I, maybe like when I did move over, I've always felt that.

Living in Portugal with a name like Kate and not looking particularly Portuguese meant that I did sort of feel like an outsider when I was there. I literally never really felt like I fit in like truly. I think a lot of times you'd go out and maybe, especially in Lisbon or like a bigger city, people would speak to me in English. And it would only be when I would then speak in Portuguese and like flawless.

James Doran (20:40.365)

Portuguese accent that you'd be like, okay. Sorry. Your Portuguese. Yeah. And basically, and I guess that's quite useful for knowing if someone's talking about you, but on your back. Absolutely. Yep. It would happen. Yeah. Or if you want to get out of something, you can just speak in English. No one knows any different. but, but yeah, I mean, I feel like I wondered to an extent if when I moved to England, if I would feel any different, because.

I guess when I was growing up, I didn't necessarily watch the same TV shows as my friends did, like the Portuguese shows. I would watch a lot of the English ones. And a lot of the TV I watched was probably English or, you know, any sort of movies, you know, I wouldn't watch the Portuguese dubbed versions. I would watch all the English ones. So when my friends would be singing the sort of Disney...

theme songs they would sing the Portuguese versions and I didn't realize was a thing until I was in I was here in Sweden and I went out with my colleagues and under the sea started learning and I was like I know this one and then it was all in Swedish yeah I was like what they ruined the song I know my Swedish friends were singing along and I was like this is not right no that's what I grew up with I'm like this isn't right like the accent sound right this is wrong

And it was, yeah, I guess I never, maybe I never really felt like truly Portuguese. Like I didn't get all of the same references. I, you know, I was clearly that sort of kid that was between two cultures. I, I, and this is so mad. I remember being, I don't know, like seven years old and, and our teachers asking us to like fill in this like form of when you're learning about breakfast and lunch and dinner and bedtime. And I put in.

I don't know, maybe like my bedtime was like 8 .30 or something like that. Maybe even a 7 .30. I don't know. It was, it was really early. And my teacher came over to me separately and was like, I think you did this wrong. I was like, no, that's literally when I go to bed and dinner time. Literally I didn't get them wrong. And my friends would mock me and be like, you know, I, I, if you go to bed at that time, I'm still having dinner at 9 .30. I was like, well, I'm not the kid with bags under my eyes.

James Doran (23:00.781)

but it's like super different culturally. Like I, I, I think I, I just, I couldn't understand, you know, when people would say those things to me as I can't, my way felt normal. I guess you don't know any different, but yeah, I guess when I moved to England, I still felt completely in between cultures because obviously I still didn't have any of the English references. I didn't, when I was in New Zealand, I didn't have the same.

references either and I didn't have a New Zealand accent so I was also never a Kiwi. So it's like just embrace the international person that I am maybe. I think that's a really good point of like feeling displaced constantly because I think I know I've got a lot of friends here whose parents left Yugoslavia, well what was it, the Baltic countries as things are happening and they still you know

have a strong connection to Croatia or Serbia or Bosnia, wherever they're from. And when I talk to them, they're like, no, I grew up in Sweden, but I am Croatian or Bosnian. And they go home a lot, but then they feel kind of like, as you're saying, like you don't know which nationality you associate with. Yeah. But it's also quite, it's a blessing in a curse because it is said fitting in can be difficult, but then fitting in can be really easy, I guess, in other cases, because you have.

mutual interests or some kind of connection with many people. Yeah. As you're an adult, maybe more than a child. Yeah, but I mean, and I completely agree. It was more so that, you know, when you're younger, you really just want to fit in. And the sort of older you get, you realize, you know, why, I guess, being international isn't a bad thing, you know, not necessarily fitting into a culture just means you actually have more cultures to pull from in a way.

So I didn't, I sort of don't see it in as a bad thing. Obviously I see it as, as something that was just a learning experience in a way of. No, and I hope you never do see it as a bad thing because it's such a wonderful thing to have the ability to be so empathetic to three different nations now and nationalities now, which is such a lucky perspective to have. Yeah. So yes, we've done fresh this week. What was it like, I guess then?

James Doran (25:22.637)

So obviously socialising once you've learned some references wasn't quite easy because I'm guessing your English language level was basically fluent. Yeah, again, I think it was like the comfortable choice, obviously coming to England because obviously English literature made sense to me in England, but also I wasn't coming to it from a place that I needed to learn another language. I did have probably all the mistakes that a lot of foreign people do in terms of...

I don't know, being told we were going to the Shakespeare's Globe and me asking how to get to Southwark. I mean, I missed the bicester when I first moved to the town. So even in England you have that public memory. So, you know, it's all like, I don't understand what these people are telling me. It's all part of the fun, I guess. And I, you know, occasionally I think when I moved to England, it would happen a lot more.

in English that people would be like, you know, you're saying that that's not how you say it. Or like to me, I think it was like, and I had genuinely have to stop and think about this so I don't say it wrong still, but drum and bass. I for all my life, I probably would have just called it like drum and bass. And yeah. And I just, you know, it's the sort of things that you say in your head, but no one's ever called you out. Like you've never maybe said it out loud. You just read these things.

And so eventually I have... Very good for me. Yeah. Did you learn English spellings of English words or was it the American spellings as well? I think for the most part always English. And I remember... Yeah. I was quite conscious about that with the Cs and Zs and Ss and whatever. Adding U's everywhere. Yes, yes, of course. But also on that, I've got two Spanish friends and they learn through reading books.

And then I was asking them some questions. And then my friend David would always like add an extra ED, the end of every single like word, like compounded it. It was just how I read it. Like, because in English, it's a nuance or like a bomb or comb. You don't know it's a silent B because you've only read it and you just knew how that one, that word is. It's a comb for your hair or. Yeah. Yeah.

James Doran (27:43.181)

Yeah, no, I guess like because I obviously I did speak in English with my dad. It was never that bad, but it was, it was very much like in my head, I was probably still thinking in Portuguese. And so I almost like, you know, you sort of slightly slower to like think about things. We're writing. I had no problems. I think like that was fine. It was more like you don't speak. I didn't speak English necessarily every day. So it's just the shift of, okay, well now I'm doing everything in English. Yeah.

And do you now think in English or dream in English or is it Portuguese? It has changed. It 100 % has changed. I think I do think and dream everything in English now. But I think when I go home, like for like a week, you start to see it change back. But yeah, it's brutally changed. Like it's everything is English these days. That's how I imagine like you.

you know, you're fluent in a language or it's competent when you can start thinking for yourself in that language or dreaming in it. Yeah. I think my dad once made this joke. Maybe he was serious about it of like, I think you know, when you know a language, when you know how to say a really random word, like coat hanger. really? So I should learn. I've got a Swedish dictionary somewhere around here. Yeah. And then it struck me the other day, I don't know if I remember what it's called in Portuguese. I'm not fluent anymore.

What is it in Portuguese where you haven't really forgotten? I'd say like, kabeel. That's how I'd call it. But it genuinely took me like, my god, I'm not a Portuguese person if I don't remember how to say this. This is such good for a podcast. You're just looking around looking for the word karangu. No, I can't find it. Pressure is on. karangu, here we go. Galg. G -A -L -G -E. You are now fluent in Swedish. I know. God, just my SFV. I passed it all. Done.

Wonderful. The next question I have is about kind of working in England. I'm assuming you didn't work in Portugal because you were still pre -university age, but culturally you still have a view of Portuguese working culture. How was the UK different? Yeah, it's a good question. I feel like thinking about it now, I...

James Doran (30:04.397)

I always had this idea that in Portugal you always, I think like you do tend to work longer hours or obviously not every industry. I would say like I work in tech now and I see like my brother's husband sort of does the same, is like a similar role. And I see his sort of working hours are now very similar to mine. It's like, it's really, I think like it's probably changed over time where now.

every, every sort of company in Portugal, if they're like a tech based company, they also have to, they also want to attract international talent as well. So it's, it's very similar to what you have in England of a sort of nine to six PM or nine to five, same sort of thing. so in terms of like that aspect of it is now the same, but I, I just remember thinking like this is maybe like a slightly off topic in terms of work, but in Portugal, you.

you grow up realizing that you can just go to the shops at any time or like everything is just open longer. Like, like shopping centers would be open until like 11 PM. So if I finished work, I can just go still shopping after work versus here in England, like you finish work and you're like, most places are like closed at like six. So that was something that to me even was like,

something I had to get used to of like, I'm working now, so I can't just go and do all of these things after work. I can't go to the bank after work. I can't, like, but everything just closes. whereas in Portugal, you sort of get a bit more used to, I can just pop out and do my errands like a bit later. not everything, obviously the bank does close and post office does, but for the most part, you'd, you'd be able to do everything after work, which yeah, obviously in England, you just, you definitely can't do it. I mean, it's interesting because I am...

I've lived in cities mostly. Only when I moved to Leamington Spa was when I noticed that, okay, I've been closed at five or, but I'm used to like being able to do anything after work. And you still can in like supermarkets and things, but when I came here to Sweden, nothing was open. On a Sunday, things are just closed. People don't do anything. I had to do all like my go to the taxi agency, everything else during work hours, get to the bank and work like, it's fine. You've got to go do it. And I was like,

James Doran (32:26.317)

What? Can you just leave and do life admin? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was such a weird one because it, you almost feel a bit guilty if it's like, no, I have to do this and I can't do it. Yeah. but yeah, no, I think there's so much now about working in Portugal that I don't know in terms of like benefits that they give you, for, I don't even know like tax things that I hear.

like friends now talk about, I'm like, wow, I'm so out of the loop now that it's, it's almost a bit alien to me. but in some ways I don't know if it would appeal to me to like go and work from Portugal. I, I, I like being able to like work from there, but in some ways I don't know how well I'd also like adapt now. And I feel like language wise, because I've never worked in Portugal.

I don't really have like the business vocabulary to speak and like do all my work things in Portuguese, which is also it's like trying to explain your job to like your parents and in a different language. You're like, I don't know how to say this. Is your dad fluent in Portuguese then? He is. Yeah, he's definitely fluent, but he does not talk if he can avoid it. So I don't think I could ever speak to my dad in Portuguese. I think I...

I would just laugh too much is one thing, but I don't know. Not unless you want to talk about some of the family members that are back. Maybe. Kiwi family members that is. Yeah, yeah. Maybe. We have done that while abroad. But that would be like the one thing. Because otherwise you're like, no, it's too weird to speak to them in Portuguese. It's too unnatural. Wow. And then is there anything else which shocked you between Portugal and the UK?

You can say no, it's fine. I don't think so. I mean, I think because of when I moved and having moved for university, I feel like a lot of those like things that maybe were shocking would have been regardless, because it was still moving away from home, right? It was just that everything was in a different language. You chose to move that bit further. Yeah. Perfect. Well, I guess we'll call a conclusion to section two. Thank you. And we'll see you for section three.

James Doran (34:54.477)

So hey and welcome to section three of the podcast, which I still haven't actually named, but it's effectively a recap of your time in the UK. So I guess if you, the first question I usually ask is if you could go back to the day you move and you could tell yourself something, give yourself some advice, would you give yourself some advice first of all? And if so, what would it be? gosh, I've probably got quite a bit of advice. I think I would give myself.

You know what, there's like a few things that I have actually thought about. And like over time, they still like pop into my head now. And maybe, maybe like one thing I do remember like being finding quite hard in moving was making friends, which maybe sounds like a bit silly, but I think when...

As I was saying, I didn't come from a particularly big town. Most of my friends were people I'd known for like 10, 15, basically my whole life when I was there. Lived in the same house my whole life, same city, had never moved. And suddenly you're in this new place. And it's not friends that you have from school that you see every day. As anyone going to university, you know that it's...

You know, you might end up being friends with the people you live with in halls and like your accommodation, you might end up maybe being friends with people on your course, but those friendships don't just sort of develop from nothing. You have to put in the effort. And I remember at the time, in a way, maybe I was sort of in my head thinking, I'm not going to stay here. I don't necessarily have to like invest in these friendships because I've got all my friends back home. And it was a terrible way of looking at it because...

you know, regardless of thinking you weren't going to stay, you still need people around you that will support you and like that, that you need that, if you need a friendship group and sort of a support network. And I remember calling my brother and being, and he's like three years older than me and asking him like, how do you make friends? Like as an adult, it was like, I don't, I don't know anymore. and I guess, yeah, I think like what I really learned from that was to just.

James Doran (37:10.285)

I guess move out of your comfort zone a little bit, like join groups. Like the main reason I joined volleyball was like I enjoyed it and I sort of felt like that would bring that sort of other friendship group and some, some activity with like like -minded people that would at least have one shared interest or sort of hobby with me. And I think that was like the best thing I could have ever done for like my university life. and I, I, I only joined, I think in my.

towards the end of my second year maybe or third year even and I would like go back and say like join a sports team as like or join any team from like the beginning as as soon as like you can like join different groups join like different things and just expose yourself to like those things where you are interested in and you'll eventually find these people who you know they're they're people that you do as I said like share a hobby with so they're not

just these people that you live with or they're not the people that you studied with. They're literally people who you'll bond over something that maybe you'll do together, like in the future outside of university. so that was like definitely one thing I, as I, I learned from it when I went into my masters, I joined volleyball again. That's a very good point. You can't like just go to someone, Hey, you're my friend. Like when you're six or 10 or maybe even 15, if you're lucky. But, I think it's, it's also like, you realize that not everyone.

is you don't, you're also not going to want to be friends with everyone. And I think I didn't always appreciate that when I was, when I'd moved is like, I'm probably not going to be friends with all these people just because we studied together. Or, you know, I have to also be the one saying like, do you want to grab a coffee after class? Or do you want to do something or do you know, it's like, if you don't do that and they don't do that, you're never going to see these people. yeah. It's kind of like, you have to ask you.

on a friend date. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's literally quite nerving to do. I know, because I had a similar thing where I grew up in a small village or town outside of the city. And I have all my friends like my best friends from home I've known since I was like four, and they're still my really close friends. And they're good to diversity. Okay, I knew my housemates, but I didn't don't actually speak to any of the people I live with in first year. I speak to people I live with in second year and third year.

James Doran (39:34.317)

But most of my friends came from volleyball. Like you are the fourth person I've had on this podcast, who I've met playing volleyball, which is surreal. And then the employee won't be the last. It's shown how international the sport is and be how, as you said, you know, how great it is to use sports or hobbies or some kind of social, I guess, fluid, whether it's the dance class or something is, is the way to break the ice because.

You're not asking all the questions or asking how to drink in your hand. It's, yeah, let's play this thing. And you instantly unlock some vocabulary and some talking points. Yeah. And I think, I think with anything as well, that pushes you slightly outside your comfort zone, you're immediately, you're immediately sort of pushing yourself to do something that is a bit different. And that is probably, I'm going to go up and speak to these people because.

I'm here by myself and we're already doing this together, so I might as well speak to them a bit more. And maybe if you were just within the comfort zone and trying to play it safe, you wouldn't even go up to speak to those people. So already challenging yourself means you're a lot more open to anything that's a new opportunity maybe. So language courses, anything you want, just worlds your oyster. That's great. And I think...

Well, again, going back to that from for me, I made a really good friend, Ethan, or one of my best friends was after volleyball, we just always go to the pub and like watch football or play FIFA or eat chips and cheese because we're without basic. But we kept doing it like most weeks. I mean, yeah, we're still close down. He's actually just been traveling on New Zealand. Yeah, great. But I mean, I was going to say because even the same applies with

When I moved to London, eventually you're like, again, in this big city, don't, you know, a few people maybe from university and you're still like, you do still need to make friends. Like, yeah, you can make some friends from work. and they do end up being a sort of bulk of your friendship group, I guess, but it's still, you still have to put in the effort. You know, you still have to think like, do I even like these people? you know, will you sort of adopt them as your friends or, or no?

James Doran (41:52.845)

and when, what? In the limbo zone or just co -work your friend or? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like once you don't work together, do you still see them? And, and yeah, I mean, even I've, I bonded with some friends, so like previous roles through volleyball as well, you know, it's just, it's the glue that holds everyone together. You keep inviting me to this, this thing in limbo. That's never been, I should probably try and get. You should. Yeah, you should. yeah, I was going to say as well, one thing that I would tell myself.

to be fair, I stick by this in the sense of like you, if you're moving to like a country and you only really know like the main, or, you know, everyone knows like the main city, you know, I think it's, people also need to remember that it's okay to go somewhere that no one else knows about, you know, in a way I remember thinking and feeling that a lot of people were sort of asking why, why, you're going to England. Are you going to London or no.

Cause I genuinely never wanted to move to London as a first experience. Cause I felt like it was going to be too big, too big a culture shock or just be swallowed up. I was probably not really going to enjoy it. And you know, other cities, very expensive. You're also very, very expensive. Yes. But it was almost like, you know, other cities can be really nice. And a lot of people, if you're moving to a new country, maybe like the biggest city, it feels like the safer option where it actually, you might have a nicer experience going somewhere that's still.

easily accessible, but you know, maybe you'll get more of like a community feel, or maybe you'll get more of like, this sort of real experience. And I think that really like contributed to me like even enjoying those first few years in England. That's a very good point. I think, as you mentioned that this is more to us, to a country than it's kind of top tourist spots. And you're, and if you're going to live there as well, you're not a tourist all the time, you're a resident. So you need to go somewhere where it actually works for you.

yeah. And the UK has got so many beautiful places. Yeah. Liverpool in particular. And Oxford. But you know, it's like the luxury of, I don't know, living in Oxford and you can just pop over to the Cotswolds or somewhere like gorgeous. And, and you don't really get that as much in London. obviously you still can, but. The room is so nice to your side, along with the table. Yeah. And the architecture is incredible. And you still have all the.

James Doran (44:15.597)

I'm managing some London, plus it's only an hour away on the bus or train, so it's not that far. Yeah. So it's just the open -mindedness, I'd say, key thing. And it's probably easier to get to from Heathrow than most parts of London. Actually, it really is. It really is. Canterbury was only an hour away as well. Yeah, it's Canterbury's in the East side. Yeah. So Gatwick would be where you went. Yeah, true. Gatwick. This is quite London's specific geography here. Challenging me as well. And then...

What advice would you give someone leaving Portugal? Do you mean leaving Portugal to go anywhere else? Yeah, anywhere in the world. We learn a second language. Yeah, I think like the thing is most people in Portugal have pretty good English. So it's like pretty safe to assume that most places you'll get by with English. Even if you don't know like, like you in Sweden, you can get by with English, right?

Yeah, my Spanish colleagues, my German colleague, they all speak English. Yeah. So learning Swedish, but English is the international language, which is why people like me find it hard to learn other languages because everyone just wants to talk English to you. Yeah, it's true. But I... Some of us do try and I want... Swedish strikes me as quite a hard one actually, but... It's very similar to German, just with a weird accent. Well, not weird, it's just different.

You know what, I would actually say the main thing I would also say to someone leaving Portugal is the weather will most likely also be a shock in most places. Coming to England, like, I don't know, the hours of daylight is just depressing. Apart from in the summer. I've left England and thought it's more depressing where I am now. Yeah. If you like it. I mean, it was difficult.

the first winter was especially difficult, but I think to give the UK it's credit. We're a lot more sociable in the winter, especially because the drinking culture is a lot more like, let's go for a one drink here. It's not so much. It's very much being, you don't read, drink in the week. And then you drink a lot of the week in the week. It becomes more, more like freeing, I guess, or that you're celebrating the finish of the weekend. yeah, we spent a bit easier, but yeah.

James Doran (46:39.405)

It's interesting to think about daylight and it took this long to weather, which is okay. I'm so proud of you. It was hard. It's been a long time you've had weather, weather, weather, weather. So maybe it's me becoming English now. Yeah, but English, you just mentioned it in six seconds. That's true. That's true. I'll give myself a pat on the back. Yeah, no, it's probably the most depressing thing of having moved to England is a lack of sunshine.

and going home and being told how even more pale than normal you actually look. Wow. And even less people talking Portuguese to you. Yes. True foreigner. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, what a great way to end. One bad question, I guess, is would you do it again? Absolutely. 100%. Yeah. Moving anywhere, I think, was super good, like personally.

even like right at 18, it was such like a foundational part of like building your own identity, like away from what you know, and just really pushing yourself and I 100 % grew as like a person and and I would recommend it to anyone like just even move for like three months and change your view on like everything. Perfect. And what's the future? Are you going to stay in London for the visible or? For now, there's like a little niggle maybe of the -

something there's beneath the surface. I don't know. If you can move anywhere tomorrow. Somewhere warm and sunny. I you know, it's it's sort of like, because of like work. Where I work, I work mostly with people from Stockholm, Gibraltar and Malta. And you know, I wouldn't say no to spending like a few months working from the Malta office. Malta is nice. Is it in Valletta? Yeah, Sleam. Valletta is good. Yeah, it is nice.

Like office by the beach, you literally look out at the oceans. I wouldn't say no to that for a little while. Go work in Popeye's village? Yeah, something like that. But yeah, no, I do not see myself living in England for the rest of my life. Let's put it that way. So going somewhere warm, like a bird in winter flying south. Yes, that does make sense. Perfect, well that's, yeah. So thank you Kate for joining me for this or indulging me on this podcast journey I decided to go down on.

James Doran (49:04.397)

and yeah, it's, it's so nice to finally ask you a lot of like deep personal questions, which I don't never really asked you through knowing you so long. It's always been around like going out or volleyball and stuff. It's never been, you know, about your background or your childhood or your story. So thank you for sharing that with me. I never knew that your parents were lectures of the, of what you said is and even then,

So that was really quite good fun to understand that. And as I've said with most of my guests now, it's like such a wonderful thing to have a conversation about the topic so deep. And I think you learn quite a lot about the person you're talking to. So thank you for joining me. Thank you. It's been great. Wonderful. And I don't know if you want to share your socials or anything for people to find you. That's really great. I'm happy for people to follow. I used to have my own travel blog.

It's not so active these days, but it still exists. Yeah. Tracking Kate I used to be. Still are. I still am. Yes. I'm still tracking and tracking the world, but yeah, less actively blogging myself these days. Traveler ad. Perfect. And if you did find something fun or interesting or useful in this podcast, please let us know in the comments, please. Let us know on social. And as always, please.

like share subscribe there's even a patreon now so you can follow and support me on that if you wish to yeah hopefully we'll see you next time bye