James Doran (00:06.734)

The Expat pod. My name's James. I'm your host. And my guest today is Jonathan Wilks, who's my friend. Hey guys. I was just saying hello. Yeah, that's Johnny or Jonathan or Jon. Goes by many names. But he is my friend since 2016, 15? How long has it been? 2016. Can't believe it. So we went to university together in the UK and been friends since.

So, Johnny is from South Africa, or South Africa, if everyone else. And, yeah, Johnny, introduce yourself if you don't mind. Yeah, thanks, good intro. So, pretty much as you said, my name's Jonathan. I've been in the UK for six and a half years now, coming up to seven in September, which is really scary. It feels like yesterday that I arrived. And yeah, it's been quite a journey, as you can imagine. Some...

Amazing parts, some difficult parts of time, but I've loved every second so far. Awesome.

James Doran (01:16.622)

This is the kind of first section of the podcast where I'm trying to talk about where they get this from and how they got to where they are or where they live. So let's see, expand on where you're from. I know you're from South Africa, but whereabouts? Yeah, good starting place, I think. So as you said, I'm from South Africa. I was born there. I grew up in Johannesburg, which is not the state capital, but I think a city that's very well known to international people, kind of call it the financial capital.

if you had to give it a name. And I grew up there, I went to school there, and then I moved to Pretoria, which is the state capital for university. And that's literally a city right next to Johannesburg. It's about a 45, 50 minute drive, so it's not too far. And yeah, I was quite fortunate to have traveled to many places around the country. It really is a beautiful country to see, an amazing holiday destination, if nobody's ever been there before.

And yeah, no, it was a it was a really special and very unique childhood I had I think growing up in Africa is is very special nice nice and you're now living in England, right? So tell us how you've managed to get across and mainly for university to begin with them on why you did that and then obviously finding jobs after that Let's expand on those. So why did you why did you want to leave?

So good question. I decided to move overseas kind of for three main reasons. The first one was to do with my education. So I studied my undergrad in mechanical engineering at the University of Pretoria. And then I shortly realized after that, that I needed to study further to get into the line of work that I currently am in now. And really the kind of degrees or the field of education that offers the degrees I need to do, which in my case was automotive engineering.

was either in the UK or in the US. So I chose the UK because of my sort of visa options and that kind of stuff. So that was sort of point number one. Point number two leads on from the first, which was my career. So I wanted to get into sort of automotive engineering R &D, which is an amazing field of work to be in. It's what I currently work in now. And South Africa doesn't really do that side of the industry. They have a massive automotive manufacturing industry.

James Doran (03:32.718)

But on the R &D side, it's predominantly in the Northern hemisphere. So that was point number two. And then thirdly, you know, I think after sort of growing up and living in more or less the same place, I mean, as I said, I was fortunate to travel to many areas around the country. I just felt like I needed a bit of an adventure and to see more of the world. So it was kind of those three main reasons why I moved to the UK. And that was six and a half years ago now. I mean, it's crazy. It feels like yesterday. And how easy was it to do that? Like, obviously, I've always wanted to just...

live somewhere else, but how do you start that process? What's the first thing you do? It's not a quick thing. It takes a lot of planning. So in my case, I came to university, which is kind of a whole different route to move overseas. The UK is, you know, world renowned for having international students, especially at post grad level. So I applied to Oxford Brookes University, which is obviously where I met you and you know, we studied together.

And I was fortunate enough to get an unconditional offer, which was awesome. And that kind of, you know, set my arrival date and what I was going to do when I first got here for at least the first year. And as many South Africans do when they move overseas, I had to get a visa. So a lot of people get work visas, usually requiring sponsorship. So they have to get a job and then their company either pays for offers to help them with their paperwork.

In my case, it was a bit different. So for the UK, there's a special visa type called an ancestral visa. And basically you're entitled to that if you can prove that your grandparents, so it's quite specific, it's your grandparents had to be born in the UK. So obviously, you know, we had all the paperwork and the birth certificates and that kind of stuff. So I applied and I got that visa and that visa allowed me to live and study without restriction in the UK for five years.

So I think I put that application in probably in early August and it took about a month to process. And then in mid September I came over to the UK. And what was it like leaving and then like the common commission sorting it out and obviously all from a different hemisphere. Obviously the time zone is not too bad, but how did you find accommodation? Did you get a lot of help from that? So first of all, what was it like leaving? It was, it was very exciting, but very frightening at the same time. I mean,

James Doran (05:56.11)

It kind of felt like I just packed two suitcases, you know, and got on a plane and headed north really. But I think because I went to university, you know, I think some would say it was a bit of a softer landing. So I stayed in university accommodation, which was really great because it allowed me to basically have accommodation from the first day that I got there. And really, I mean, that was a bit like the degree, you know, you put in an application. Luckily, I got accepted and I got allocated a room in the post -grad residence.

And then, of course, I needed all that documentation as part of my supporting documentation for my visa because you've got to prove what you're going to do and where you're going to live, at least for the first sort of year, year and a half type of stuff or time period rather. What did your family think about you wanting to leave the move? They were really supportive, which is something I've always been very appreciative of. Yeah, I think they obviously, you know, they were quite sad, which is understandable. And.

I was sad as well, but I knew it was the right thing for me because I'm very close with my family and there's been lots of times where I've missed them a lot. And yeah, homesickness is a real thing. I definitely had it for a while. You know, when you first move overseas, you kind of feel like you're on an extended holiday for a bit. You're almost having your mind that you're going to go back. And then after maybe a month or two, you realize that's not the case. And then it, you know, it kicks in again. Lucky, you know, lucky enough, because I was at university, you know, I was kind of

thrown into an area or an environment with people more or less my age and you're forced to, well not forced, but you know, there's so many opportunities to integrate and make friends and that kind of stuff. And that really helped. I moved to Sweden, but as an adult for a job at a university, you move and everyone else moves for the same reason and usually moved by themselves. So everyone's looking to make friends, friends, group, group we had, but we were spinning together. Whereas now that I moved away to Sweden, I mean, when you moved to London, I guess from the Midlands.

You know, you go as an asshole and it's really hard to build those relationships you may have done at university. It's quite an interesting point that you bring up with that. No, for sure. So just to get a bit more background into that. So again, I've been fortunate to live in various places of the UK, which has made this, I think, the experience even more special because I've seen how life is in different areas. So I started off in Oxford where Oxford Brookes is based and I was there for a year.

James Doran (08:17.262)

And then when I got my first job, I moved up to the West Midlands and I lived in a town called Leamington Spa, which was, I think, as beautiful as any English town could be. So it was a very special time in my life. And I lived there for three and a half years over COVID, which is definitely significant. And then in June, 2021, I changed roles and I moved down to London. So I moved from a smaller city to a small town to a super big city. And I was fortunate enough to have...

you know, old school friends and old university friends that also live in London now, and that definitely sort of formed the basis of my new social circle here. But it's difficult to meet new people, especially in big cities. And I must be honest with you, you know, I've met some new people here, but majority of my social group in London are very much the people that I knew before I came to the city. I do find that with London, that for a 50 with 12 million people, probably more now.

it's really lonely because no one talks to you on the tube. I'm from the north of England, we talk to everyone and you go on the tube and everyone's on the phones. I'm not like that's so true. Nobody talks on the tube. And if you say something like people think you're mad and you know people from London, if you think you do talk, then you know, please do it more because you know, yeah, people who are from London, we don't know so much. So.

Yeah, it might be a different time. And you know, it's one of the few times where you can just sit down and kind of people watch, you know, life is so busy in the city. It's actually a great opportunity to start chatting to people because you've got, I mean, depending on your journey, you could have 10 minutes, you could have half an hour where you're literally forced to sit down and you know, you could start chatting to someone. So maybe I should start a trend. Yeah, you might meet your next friends or whatever. What can happen from that? Should be a...

I think it should be a movement we have to try and you know, get in is every time we go and we transport talk to the first person you see, ask them, ask them how they are. Absolutely. I'd be done for that. I'd sign that petition. That's a great way to end the kind of first segment, I guess, of this podcast. So we'll see you for part two.

James Doran (10:32.205)

Hey, welcome back to section two of the podcast. This is where we kind of talk about first impressions being in the country. What what people feel like when they first get there? How they say life is so. So Johnny, what was your what was your first impression of the biggest shock you had when you first moved to the UK? Yeah, it's a great question. And so certainly one of the things that I was very aware of, and in fact, in many respects, it's still it still hits me almost every day since I moved here.

was obviously, you know, I'd come from third world, arguably second sort of a mixture in between very much into the first world. And, you know, you come into, you know, the trends and the norms of the first world. And something that I was really, really impressed about is just how dependent sort of UK life, especially like in the city today, how dependent people are on the use of having like a smartphone or a smart device. I mean,

You know, just to get around the city or to pay for something or to find out something you almost couldn't survive in London without a smartphone today. And I mean, obviously, you know, I mean, iPhones have been around for a long time. They were certainly around when I still lived in South Africa, but you know, the dependency on them just to live your day to day life here is amazing. And it really, it surprises me. That's quite funny you say that because when I first moved here to Sweden, the key to my house is on my phone. It's like a Apple pay key. Yeah, exactly. I've got two phones, one for work.

one for personal use. And I had on one phone to begin with. And I was always scared my phone would die, or I'd lose it or you get stolen. And I couldn't get into my house. So I had this like huge anxiety when I first moved like, God, what if it dies? So my nights out with a turbine by length of my phone rather than like how tired I was, which is quite a paradigm shift. But it's amazing. I didn't realize that was your setup. That's awesome. Yeah.

So that was like the big thing. And I said, I mean, that still surprised me every day because I mean, let's be honest, you know, every time you go into this, well, I mean, obviously you live abroad now, but every time you go into central London, there's one more thing you can do on your phone, you know, be scan a poster or, or find out what, why, why does it delay on the train? It's just, you just becoming more and more dependent on your technology. So that was something that was a big eye open to me. And then the second thing, which I think is maybe quite UK specific was, so obviously I grew up.

James Doran (12:55.181)

I grew up with my home language being English, learned a bit of Afrikaans at school and I went to an Afrikaans university, but I've never been amazing at it. But so English was always my language. And you get to the UK, which of course is the home of English. And it was just so amazing, especially at university, just how many different dialects or accents they are. And, you know, you'd speak to one person and they sound totally different to the other. And they almost lived like, you know, they live one country across from each other. It was incredible. It's...

Every time and I mean, I've been fortunate to do a bit of traveling through the UK now and every time you go somewhere new, you hear like a different version of it or a different dialect of it or accent rather. Sorry, that's the word accent and it's just it's so cool. It's so diverse. We got the most like named words for like a roll of bread roll or a bath or a butty farm or a batch or a tea cake, you know, every difference town has their own name for certain things. And you're right. I'm from the north, but.

I'm lucky, I didn't really, well not lucky, I just didn't really get a thick Scouse accent, which has put up me in terms of being able to speak with people who aren't from England. But it's interesting to consider, yeah, you're right, every 10 miles or 15 kilometres or something, there's an accent change. Even in London, there's like several and that's one city, right? So. yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you can.

sit next to two people in the tube and they sound completely different to each other. And, you know, they both speak the same language. It's amazing. The diversity of the country in general as well. Obviously we've got a wonderfully diverse country where everyone's come from all parts of the world and settled here, which has probably, you know, assisted that the accent change and, you know, wherever you're from. So it's probably, it's not, it's more as annoying if you're not from the country, but it's also a bit of honor because we're so, so diverse.

That's always good. Yeah, no, it's been, yeah, I've learned a lot about how many different dialects or accents of English they are, that's for sure. What was the hardest thing about the move or the hardest thing about the initial living in the UK? Obviously after the honeymoon period you were saying about before. Yeah, good question. So I think, I mean, and I think it's true for many, many, many people that move abroad is obviously you miss your family and you know, you kind of miss your ways of life.

James Doran (15:20.141)

and your norms of your own culture. And that was hard. That was definitely hard. And I think it definitely makes you question whether you've made the right decision. But at the same time, which is both a challenge but also very exciting, is you get to learn and adapt to new cultures and new norms. And that hasn't been easier at times. You have a certain mindset about a way of life or doing something and it's totally different.

And of course you have to adapt because you know, living in that country where that's, you know, where that's the case. so those have been challenges, but I, yeah, I've overcome them and actually in many ways, you know, there's a lot of the British culture, which I've, I've integrated into my own personal life and they're there to stay regardless of where I go next. What are a few of those customs you've kind of adapted into a life that you've leading in British anyway? Well, a lot of it's to do with food.

So like, especially even almost came from like university days, fish and chips on a Friday. Absolutely love it. It's like a standard of life now. Although we used to do it, obviously, it's a huge thing here, like a Sunday roast. Love that. And also just, I mean, again, mainly food, just like a couple of nice drinks with friends in the pub. That was something we already didn't do in South Africa much. So that's been a nice way to adjust. And, you know, it's a different way of socializing.

and very comforting and I mean, the weather is yeah, Northern Hemisphere winters were an adjustment. I mean, you say that because in Sweden, like going for a pint at the work is not as common as England, I guess, because pints cost a mortgage. But, you know, it's it's you know, just go for a drink. The weekends are really obviously for going out here. But Wednesday nights are kind of like a student night. But.

You don't have the same kind of drinking culture. There's no pub on every corner or every third third corner and stuff where the UK every kind of residence area has a pub, which is a good place to socialize. Absolutely. I mean, in many respects, the social life here is great. I mean, I love, you know, there's never an excuse not to go for a pint. So let's be honest. There's always a reason for a drink.

James Doran (17:38.765)

Well, that's the thing yeah anything to keep yourself warm in the winter you think about Obviously all your social life in in the UK now is different from from back home and I see it's really not not different because a lot of your friends you kind of Hang out with now in London at least are back from South Africa. So how was how was it making friends in the UK compared to?

Africa how have you found it maybe in different cities between Lamington Oxford and London? Three different sized places. Good question I mean I think again you know a lot of it comes down to making friends is about having something in common so certainly a lot of and you know I've made friends not just with British people but with Europeans and Canadians I mean and that's also another thing you know one of the highlights of living here is that I've met people from all over the world.

and I've learnt different views and different perspectives on the world and that's been so special and I'll always be grateful for that. But yeah, it's about having that thing in common I think. So I made some great friends, yourself including from university. We had common career goals in mind, we had common interests in terms of what interests us personally from vehicles to what interests us professionally as well.

I've met other friends that we had very similar tastes in terms of what we do from a social or a personal and social life perspective. Funny enough, even the friends, I mean, I've met some new South African friends in London and some of the things that have drawn us together as we have common tastes in terms of things we like to do in the city. So like we've done like all the rooftop bars and we've done some really cool touristy things. And it's at having something in common with people that makes you want to spend time with them.

And that's for you. And I guess a lot of your friends, so Africa is you're still all tourists, I guess, in the city. And when we were in Oxford together, we were tourists in Oxford, albeit I'd lived there for a bit before we started uni. Absolutely. So it's having those people not just to study with like we did, and did projects with but also like revising for exams was quite good. You almost explore and learn a place and get used to a place to get out with uni and quite a few times to watch some interesting talks and doing those kind of things. Yeah, it's not.

James Doran (19:59.405)

It's not just going for drinks, you said it's all the other things like, you know, traveling to get a good road trips. And just, yeah, it's that doing something that having something in common and building experiences and relationships based on it. So that's how you make some pretty good friends. We did. Yeah. Yeah. We did some, we did some interesting things during COVID. A lot of GTA, a lot of board games, those kinds of things. And essentially you mentioned before about like, obviously, even special.

and meeting loads of people from all over the world. How did you think people reacted to you and like what people's first impressions of South Africa was like? Because obviously I've not been there. We were meant to go in 2020, but sadly that didn't happen because of Covid. But you know, my interpretation of South Africa has come from a lot from what I've read in the media. Obviously a lot of things in the 90s, which Mandela and what he was getting on with, a red -tree nose book. But a lot of things that...

We don't know an awful lot about the country, or as I did, I was quite ignorant, but what has been your lived experience of people's thoughts on you? It's such a great question. And yes, I've been asked about it many times from both friends and just people I've met, either from work or just in passing. So, yeah, I think a lot of people didn't know much about the country.

and were genuinely interested to find out more, which is great. You know, that's a great way to start the conversation. But unfortunately, I think a lot of people's very limited knowledge was very, was very bad knowledge of it. And, you know, South Africa certainly has its issues. You know, we've all heard of the high crime rates and corruption in the governments on all those kinds of things. And I'd like to feel, I mean, you know, I'd like to be an ambassador for the country because there are many good things about it.

And for a holiday destination, it's got to be one of the best in the world. I mean, it is truly beautiful. The people are amazing. You know, the culture is very special because it's very diverse as well. And yeah, I can say with confidence that I've definitely changed some people's views about it for the better. And I think hopefully, I mean, obviously, you know, I've been here for nearly seven years. I've met a lot of people that have come and gone.

James Doran (22:19.405)

Hopefully, you know some people have actually said well, you know based on what we've learned now will go You mentioned How many languages spoken like I know there's a lot of different We have 11 official languages. Can you believe it? And you know, it's so interesting because you know it's called the rainbow nation because of all the different ethnicities and all the different cultures you found and if

been people you know it's we're talking about British heritage, Dutch heritage, a lot of European heritage, many Europeans came out during the war. Of course you have all the African tribes and all that kind of stuff. It's a blend of cultures. It's amazing. Also there's penguins right? And there's penguins. I mean what more could you want you know? Penguins on the beach. I mean that's pretty unique. Definitely. Awesome. I think that's the the end of section two of the podcast so we'll see you for section three.

James Doran (23:23.725)

Welcome back and welcome to section three of the podcast, which is all about kind of the review of where you've lived and how you found it. I know you're still living now and you've lived in several places, but maybe it's a nice little time to recap or kind of give it, give yourself advice for five years ago or six years ago now, as you said. So I guess my first question is what would you have done differently two years ago if you could go back? That's a great question. Sure.

What would I have done differently? I think I would, I mean, obviously, you know, you know, we were at university to study hard and to get the degrees that we came for. And it was a big commitment coming from abroad, obviously very expensive as well. But I maybe would have taken a bit more time out to enjoy. I mean, you know, we had some student life, but I maybe would have done a bit more, maybe play a sport or something like that when I was studying. But honestly speaking, though,

And funny enough, I was sort of thinking about this before we started this podcast, what I would have done differently. I think the truth is we've, there's been some very difficult times, you know, COVID being one of them, but there's been some incredible times and generally summing it all up. If I had to start again, I would have done it exactly the same way because you know, part of the journey is to make the mistakes and learn the lessons. And we've all made a few, but I wouldn't change a single thing about it. Is the one bit of information you'd love to have.

before you moved or like whether it's a place to live or a place to visit or something to do with British culture? Yeah, good question. I mean, I did a lot of research before I came here, you know, not just on, you know, how to get a tax number and all that kind of stuff, but how the people were and what to expect. What would I have done differently?

I don't think I can answer that right now. I mean, what one thing would you have loved to have known? If you could, it could be nothing as well as you said before, it could just be going in with wanderlust. Yeah, what one thing what one thing would I have loved to have known? I think if I knew how good it was going to be, I was going to turn out, I probably would have come sooner. Or you just stopped a bit more and explored or enjoyed it whilst it was happening. Yeah, exactly. You maybe have learnt that Johnny. Yeah.

James Doran (25:46.029)

But as I said, I mean, Johnny's a short version. Yeah. If I knew it was really cool, Johnny, I would have, I would have, I would have prepared myself mentally mentally for it. So it's, it's a nickname that's taken a bit of getting used to, but it's all good now. Johnny or Jonathan or John is, never heard the nickname Johnny before, before he was always Jonathan or John back home. And when I first met that was the first. Yeah.

I would I just call them Johnny off the bat. Johnny. It's easier. Maybe lazy me. I was being really rude in terms of what the hell is this guy doing? God, it's not my name. Yeah, no, no, it was just it was just a it was a it was a nickname I'd never come across before. I was like, well, okay, like, this seems to be a standard for Jonathan's. Yeah, this is this is this is caught me off the back of my foot. Everything comes to John and to leave a

John, but I know Ethan and even like Jake and stuff from university, they all call to Johnny. But enough my British friends call me Johnny. That's pretty much pretty much the only people actually. So that that's definitely something I've learned about the culture. Jonathan is short into Johnny here. That's the thing. I think I remember when we were both living in Leamington when I first moved to Leamington after he'd been living there for about a year. We were in my in my house share one time we were playing a drinking game. And

I think it was the dealer one, but I don't want to say the full name because it's got a curse word in it and I don't want to get it taken down. okay, yes, I'm with you. I'm with you. I was obviously... Johnny, you had the cards at the time and it was one where if you're the dealer, you have to drink quite a bit because at the end of the game, it's really easy for everyone to guess what the card's going to be. And we were all a bit...

bit drunk for a few minutes at this point and I kept calling Johnny Jonathan and I thought why a bit in fear because stop calling me Jonathan, I don't like it, it's just so weird. Yeah the problem is when you call me that now it feels like I'm in trouble. Yeah not at all it was just quite funny because you can see yourself getting really confused as to why I was calling you Jonathan and I was just like it's quite funny let's keep doing it and so it happens and then you just kind of like...

James Doran (28:11.405)

Not a bad wave, but you were... That's so true, I remember that now. So serious, yeah. I think again, like, you know, after, again, you know, as I was saying, when you first arrive here, the cultures, the norms are different, but after a while you get used to it, you adjust, you know. That's quite a nice anecdote, we're going to end the stories on, but if you could give anyone some advice from South Africa, I guess where you're from, obviously, they wanted to move to the UK or move to a European nation.

What would you tell them to do? What would you give them? What would be the first thing you'd say? What research would you do? Great question. So I think to start off with that, definitely, as I said earlier, it's very frightening when you're planning to do it. But my recommendation is do it because you'll never look back. And it's one of those questions that you never want to, you know, you never want to be late in your life and say, what if? Just do it.

It might not work out. It might be amazing, but at least you can say you've tried. In terms of research and preparation, yeah, there's a lot to do. Obviously, like from the UK, you know, the gov .uk website is amazing. And I found out a lot of information about how the country works from that website before I came. There's some amazing, amazing groups on Facebook. One of the particulars called South Africans in London, which is probably the biggest. And they are very much an expat sort of advice and friendly chat group.

I've asked many a question there over the years that I've been here now and they've been really helpful. And, you know, of course, as I said, there's so many experts from South Africa living in the UK now, London specifically. You know, there's probably one or two people that you know, even if they're old school friends and stuff, get in touch with them again, you know, send them a message on Instagram or Facebook, find out what, you know, find out how they're doing, where they live, maybe get a, you know, maybe get a FaceTime session going or something like that. Just ask a couple of questions, you know.

just to get a feel for what life's like before there. Everybody will have some unique advice to give in one way or another. That's a really good point about, you know, reaching out to friends you think might live there. I think that's why when I moved to Sweden. And of course, by all means, I mean, you know, if you're listening to this and if you have a question for myself, you're more than welcome to reach out to me. I'd be happy to help. Socials in the kind of show notes for everyone. Yeah, socials.

James Doran (30:31.053)

We can troll Johnny. No spam. But absolutely. I'm always here to ask questions. The best advice is from your own experience in my in. Well, exactly. This is why I wanted to do this podcast was exactly that. So to get people like yourself who've lived abroad and become who've done it. As you said, they've done it and they've made mistakes and they've had the hard times. And it's that kind of thing of showing everyone that hey, it's hard, but it's worth it because.

Even if you don't like it, you can always go, well, we can always go home. We're very lucky, I guess. Everyone can always go home, which is quite sad, but there's always an option to go somewhere else, but at least you've done. Absolutely. And also, you know, I mean, as I'm sure, as I said, I mean, you've only been in, you know, you've only been abroad for six months, but it enriches your life in a way that you can't even begin to imagine before you've done it. And whatever happens, it'll be an experience.

that you'll remember for life. It's been the greatest experience of my life. Whatever happened. So far anyway. So far, of course. So I guess that's a good way of kind of closing this bit now with just a question of what are your future plans? Like, do you want to live anywhere else in the world? Do you happy in the UK for forever? Or do you want to experience the cultures in Europe or other parts of the world itself or go back home? What would you like to do?

Yeah, great question. So it's a big year for me this year. I'm applying for my citizenship this year, which I'm very happy that I've come to that time now and quite proud that I'm at that point to do it and looking forward to putting that application in and hopefully it's successful, fingers crossed. And that's going to be sort of the majority of this year. Quite frankly, to be honest with you, I'm really happy with where I am right now. I mean, I've got a great setup. I'm really enjoying London. I'm still quite new to the city and there's so much to do here.

So I'm enjoying, you know, working and still getting to know the city and sort of enjoying London life for a bit. Future plans. I would definitely like to travel more of Europe. I'm not sure if I would move anywhere else right now, as I said, I do enjoy living in the UK. And yeah, you know, maybe maybe one day I will go back to South Africa. You never know. Never say never. But for the time being, you know, got a few plans and enjoying living the UK. Yeah, and then first stop for Europe.

James Doran (32:52.877)

views, obviously Sweden, right? So you can come and see me. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. We're definitely gonna plan something later. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Yes. That's kind of the end of section three. So thank you very much for your time. And yeah, hey guys. So that was that was Johnny or Jonathan or john, how do you like calling? Thank you for getting this far in the podcast. Yeah, it was really good talking to Johnny. You see, we've been friends for six and a half years and

We don't always talk specifically about one point like this, this move to another country, which is really quite nice. And I've learned quite a lot about you, even though we've been friends for six and a half years, there's still more to know, which has been great. And I've really appreciated it. That's true. And your time on this. And thank you for helping me out. And I hope you really enjoyed it. And it's been quite cathartic for yourself. and just to end with, if you have enjoyed the podcast or you,

want to share with a friend and please leave a review on on Apple or being Spotify now have reviews or whatever you're listening to this on. Please then share with some friends as well and get the word out if you know someone who wants to live abroad and great great thing to share with them or if you want to abroad then keep listening to more. And then if you want to get in touch please feel free to add us on socials there in the show notes below and we'll see you next time for the expat pod.