James Doran (00:06.51)

Hello, welcome to the Expat Pod. My name is James, your host. And today I'm with Elsa, who is a French lady living in America. I even need to thank you so much for having me.

James Doran (00:23.278)

Hey and welcome to section one of the podcast all about getting there. So also you live in New York, New York, New York, right? So why did you move and what was the purpose? I moved because I wanted to live in an English speaking country. I was working in Europe and I had lived in Mexico for a year. So I was very fluent in Spanish, but I was behind in English. I was like,

for work, I was a consultant and I was traveling all over Europe and at some point I was like, no, I don't get the jokes. So I'm like, we have to go and live abroad because I had done that in Mexico and it worked very, very fast and was an amazing experience. So I wanted to have kind of the same experience in a different cultural country. So yeah. And to Mexico,

Why did you move there? I didn't know you were a tax code, but that's really cool as well. Was it Mexico City or was it somewhere else? It was somewhere else. It's called Leon Guanajuato. It's in the state of Guanajuato. It's a very beautiful state. It's in the north of Mexico City. I moved there because I did a business school and my business school would require to do a year road. So everybody would apply everywhere in the world.

And I had this dream to go to Latin America because I was so passionate about the language, the culture. And it was, you know, the first occasion for me to travel like that far. So yeah, I was, I mean, you know, depending on your grades, you go where you want to go.

and I was fortunate enough to be able to go where, or my first choice. So was Mexico. Wow. What was that like? I was a dream life. no, I loved it. I, I worked as a French, teacher, was studying at the same time. I, I mean, with my face right now, you don't realize when I was a, I was a model.

James Doran (02:44.046)

So I did photos. I did a few small jobs. I traveled all over Mexico. Each hiking. My brother went, he was living at the time in Kathmandu in Nepal. And he came to Mexico to visit with me. So we each hike for a month, like sleeping on the beach and the dream life. Really cool. Yeah, I'm quite jealous of that. I mean,

always do it right. Never too late. But the thing that how the trip to Mexico, how did you was up? Did your university help you with the move? Or did you have to apply yourself? What was the support you got? So no, yeah, actually, the school is helping you a lot. They live between contact even with local students. So you can, you know, if you want, you can rent the same play down renting.

So yeah, you just have to buy your ticket, your university fees, the kind of the price of what you're paying for the university in France, which is a bargain, especially if you go to the US, but don't tell a US student that. Because it's much more expensive. Anyway.

But yeah, it's, it's, yeah, you don't have to do much except buying your flight ticket, I guess. Yeah. And yeah, make sure you have a place where, you know, when you arrive. So yeah, we just went in the same place. A former French student had rented and also was very convenient. And did you, you have to, I guess you have to sort your own rent out or did that help you? So you found a former French student rent. Was that off your own back or was that?

help from the university? Yes, the university would help actually. You know, just give you contacts and also like depending on, you know, the... Yeah, I mean, either you already know friends who are also going to Mexico or they put you in contact with a student who are like going there. And then visas, did you need a visa to study in Mexico or because it was a student visa you were able to go? It's a student visa here and I make sure I would stay...

James Doran (05:03.758)

up to the last very last day of my visa even though they were the you know they were the how you call it the the pig flu you know remember at the time a swine flu yeah exactly so went to make sure the same same times yeah so every every almost every business school would repatriate their students but not my school so we're like hey you know what if mexicans are saying we're also staying

So we didn't have, which was great. We had final exam and we had continuous, continued exams. I was very nice. And then, so going from Mexico, did you, did you go back to France to finish your education and then go to the US? Yes. So I finished my master degree in France for another year or actually a company paid for my studies while I was working at the same time. So I didn't have to pay my last year.

I was actually getting paid for studying, which is an amazing programming friends. Yes. And then it gives you also like a working experience when you leave, you know, the school. So it's very great. And then I had my first job and I worked three years in Paris. And then I did this choice where I started to work for a startup and everybody were like,

What are you doing? You have a master degree in finance and audit, you should work for a big firm, you know, like a big company. It's very risky to work for a startup. And I was like, I don't care. I just want to... I wanted to work the fastest abroad. And I knew that I would join a big company would take me at least four years. Or five, you know, you...

Whatever. And with this company, I knew I could have a six month program where I would learn the software and then I could be a consultant. And after six months, I wouldn't be traveling in Europe. So I was like, okay, this is exactly what I want to do. I want to travel the world. And, so that's what I did for three years and a half. And then.

James Doran (07:20.109)

I wanted to go further and further away. And they were like, you know what? I want to actually leave abroad. So they were like, well, we might have... I had an offer in London and they were like, maybe we have something in New York if you're more interested.

And she want to stay and I was like, you know what? Maybe it's a good idea London might be too close to France I was you know, I would come back every weekend with me. So yeah, I I accepted the New York offer I mean, I didn't accept I applied for it and I wasn't the only one interested but yeah, I got the job and When you apply in I mean if you have the desire to work in the US, it's it's kind of

complicated in terms of visas. You do need to, I mean, the kind of the easiest is to find a sponsorship. So basically you need to work for a company for at least three years for them to sponsor you. And so they can send you from Europe to the U .S. That's the easiest. So that's what I've done. I had like three years experience, so it was perfect.

You still need to justify why they send you and not someone else. So you have to justify specific, you know, expertise or specific skills that you develop for these years. And you would work for only company you have obviously are present in the, in Europe and in the U S. wow. I know. Cause I looked at engineering jobs because I'm an engineer by trade and I work in electric cars.

And there's quite a lot of electric car companies in the US, mainly California. And I knew a recruiter when I was graduating, like, how can I get a job at Tesla or Lucid? And they're like, well, it's very difficult. Yeah, actually, one thing to note, if you are still working, this is a J1 student visa you can have and where after studying, you have a year where you can work. So you have a year to, you know,

James Doran (09:26.253)

prove you worth it and maybe get a company sponsor you. What happened, one of my friends actually applied to my company and she, my company then applied for their green, for her green card. So after J1, you can convert it into a green card, but yeah, you have to obviously work your ass off for a year at least. and if you, you know, if you don't then yeah, you have to leave after the year. Yeah, I've already had a J1.

because when I went to work in a summer camp, they gave you a J1 visa for three months. And then I traveled for 30 days or six days, I think. Maybe 90 days, a period of time anyway, traveling, which was good fun. Anything more you want to kind of give information about, about how to get to the US from Europe? No, yeah, absolutely. It's much easier if you get the sponsorship before arriving. I think it's...

almost impossible after. There's no way, you know, you arrive in the US and then you only have, you know, three months. And I mean, you can make contact and maybe in three months, you know, see if you could work back in Europe having the, this contact, but yeah, it's, it's end becoming harder and harder, but.

If you're doing it, you can do it. It's just like, make sure you are very aware about the different visa type and I don't know, like there are visa for artists and for journalists and for, you know, experts. So make sure that if you want, or I don't know, if you are like a lawyer, you have to, you know, basically start from scratch in the U S. So it's like, you really need to make your own investigation before.

Perfect, well thank you. It's a great way to end section one.

James Doran (11:30.189)

Hello and welcome to section two of the podcast all about being there. So Elsa, you went to Mexico first. Tell me about your first impressions of that when you arrived for studying. What was your first thoughts when you arrived? wow. Everything was, everybody was so very nice. It was kind of easy to talk to people. Everybody would be, you know, try to help you navigate or try to help you.

You know, subscribe to the class you wanted to do, whatever. So yeah, people are very welcoming. The food is fantastic. I mean, I already said it, for me it was a dream. I loved everything about it. And yeah, the student culture, it was very easy. Even, you know, I was hitchhiking and everyone was like, my god, it's very dangerous.

I would listen to local and they would tell me, you know what, you should go this way. You go, I mean, everybody's like, yeah, it was something I know what to say. Like I would, I would comment it to everyone. I think comparing that to the U S then when you arrived in the U S obviously it was for work. How did you find, I guess the comparison between Mexico and the, and the U S but also Europe and the U S from a first impression. wow. It's very different.

So in the, I mean, especially because it was for work as well. But I think mostly for Europeans, we have the impression we know the US culture because we see TV shows, we read books, we have lots of information coming from the US. So from us, it's like we kind of know, but we don't really know. So when you arrive, you're like, yeah, of course, like, you know, the...

The U .S. are straightforward, but actually they're not. So there are lots of, you know, ways to communicate. And yeah, for me it was like, I often say this story where I actually had a three -month coaching when I arrived because I was too straightforward. As a French person...

James Doran (13:42.093)

We are very very straight forward and I was like, you know what? I think New York is gonna be the same, you know, it's very ambitious so you can be very straightforward with people but I wasn't able to be as straightforward. So I would, you know, people would be like kind of shocked based on what I would say. So yeah, I had a three month coaching from a British company which was very helpful to understand.

You know, the cultural difference, the way you talk to someone, you approach someone, the way you talk to your team, the way you talk to your manager, you know, like, it was very interesting, you know, in every culture you have these, you know, not, I mean, kind of natural way, but as well, like, respectful way to talk to people. So it depends.

I mean, Japanese culture is also very, very specific where you have, you know, depending who you talk to, like, whatever. But yeah, it was super, super useful for me to just also, like, you know, make sure, like, I would say if someone is talking to me, for instance, I would have habits and I would, you know, make sure I would say, I hear you. I hear what you say.

before saying anything that I would think. I would be like, I would do, I don't know if you heard about it, the sandwich, the sandwich thing where you - the continent sandwich? Yeah. You have to say something positive, then you can say something kind of negative, but you end up like in the middle saying something like, you know, hopeful, like, so.

Never say something negative without saying something positive and hopeful. It was very interesting to see the structure of it. Because to make sure you fit in the culture. I think, being British, I thought we were quite standoffish in England. Then I moved to Sweden. It's a whole other level of being standoffish. They avoid conflict. It's their worst nightmare. Yes, exactly. So I'm quite appreciate it.

James Doran (15:54.125)

I know a lot of French people. Yeah. No, we're so straightforward. You know, it would be the opposite. If you have an issue and you don't go to us directly, we are so mad about it. Like, why you didn't come to me? Why you didn't talk to me? You know, like, you can talk to me, like, tell me what's going on, you know, like, what the heck? So yeah, I think it's a Southern European thing as well, because I know my friends literally

and Spain are also very, I guess, Latin and fiery. It's a passion. Yes. So yeah, and in the US, I would, you know, if you have an escalation like the, with a client or whoever, they would escalate the issue to your manager and then your manager bring the issue to you and then you have to bring it to your team a different way. So you have...

level of interpretation to make sure you bring the correct message to the, you know, direct person who is like primarily intended to. So yeah, it's different. And yeah, it's, yeah, all this has to be, you know, is informal and then you learn about it. And going around with, with the kind of the culture of the countries, how are you, for me, when I moved as an adult to Sweden, socially, it was difficult because you're not going for studying because you're...

When you study, you go in with a bunch of students who are all in the same situation, all looking to socialize with everyone else. But being an adult going to work, you have to really focus on friendships. And for that, I found playing sport helped. Is that a similar thing you found, compared to Mexico, where you went as a student, it was really easy to make friends in the US? Yeah, I think it's very different, especially because it's like school versus like working environments, working environment, you know.

People have different priorities, you know, do you prioritize your co -worker after work or your family and, you know, depending on your industry and so on. So these are strict to it. I think for me at the beginning was very hard to, and of course I'm in New York, so it was very hard to make friends with Americans.

James Doran (18:05.645)

So I would be... and because it's actually it's easier, you know, it's easier to go to the culture, you know, so for me it was very easy to make Mexican friends and you know, like European friends and in New York now so many different people and and to make, I don't know, like Indian friends but I had at some point after five years I was like, you know what? I think I don't have any American friends but like, okay, let me work on it, you know, like it doesn't make any sense. So yeah, I started like...

opening kind of my circle and be like, you know, like trying to invite, you know, random American people I wouldn't meet, you know, in a bar or like through friends, you know, and understand why, you know, sometimes wouldn't, you know, wouldn't be, but it's also depending on the person, you know, sometimes you don't, you don't, you just don't, I wouldn't match with a person, you know, it's okay. It's a certain issue. We're not supposed to be all friends.

I mean all crew's friends. Yeah, but yeah, it was a difficult at the beginning to make a you know, kind of local friends. Yeah. Yeah, I did find the same thing. Internationals seem to hang out with other internationals because that as I said before, they when you go for work, you you don't know many people and you have to like try and break into people's friendship groups. And if you're kind of from the country, you have a much wider French group already. So you're not looking for more friends. If you're international, then you only know a handful of people.

And like adding a new friend is never a problem. And you're always looking to find someone else to listen to me. But going along with that, then was it easier to find like things or hobbies that you like to do in the US? yes. Compared to home. You can see I find an amazing hobby. Yes, I so I'm a dancer. I'm a runner. I'm a biker. And for me, New York was okay.

At the beginning, I had this image of New York being a huge city and I'm a huge outdoor person and I was like, my god, I won't be able to do all these things that I used to, right? And I arrived in New York and I'm amazed by, my god, I'm 45 minutes from the beach, I'm an hour from the mountain. And everybody's very out in the world, everybody practices sports outside.

James Doran (20:30.381)

all go to the gym during the winter for the lazy one, no I'm kidding. But yes, they are like meet up groups. They are like, you know, people like, they really like to create groups and go for a run or go for a hike. So that would be like the way you can make kind of local friends. You go for, yeah, you go for...

a hike on Sunday and you make friends and you know you hang out with them later for just to go to a bar, to go to a museum or to go to an exhibition or to go to a concert so yeah for me it was like an amazing place to develop even more my passion for my hobbies and especially for biking.

Yeah, I'm Renews Baker. That's how I... Yeah, I see on your Instagram account. Yes. But also, when I was in New York, I used to play beach volleyball in Central Park. yes. And I played there every day of the week. And that was such a great place to meet loads of random people. Absolutely. I used to go to Central Park as well. Yeah. I mean, the beach volleyball, there's two courts. One for people who are really good, and then one for the beginners. Yeah. And it's such a good...

good atmosphere and again mainly people who aren't local but are not American. Loads of people from all over the world. A lot of people from Europe were playing it which was great fun and a good way of asking people when I was traveling for some advice on where to go in the city. So yeah I really enjoy New York for that. Okay perfect. And then I guess is there anything more you'd notice between I guess France?

Mexico and the US any kind of big changes you've noticed since being there and living there? Yes, I mean, the in France, you know, we we prepare food together and we sit on a table and we eat and we share the food and we talk for hours. We are very known for taking lunch break for one to hours, you know, especially with coworkers for lunch and then with family and and for us is very important. I know you have your breakfast, your lunch or dinner.

James Doran (22:50.541)

And even before dinner you have what we call a perot where we have drinks and a few peanuts and you know, cheese or cheese, whatever. So yes, the culture is very, very different in the US. In the US, New York is slightly different because they are aware that the food is very important for their health. So they tend to eat healthier and you know...

It's very known that if you sit down and you know, don't watch TV while eating is very, it's much better for you and you know, eating snow and all these things so people are aware but still they might not have it as a habit as opposed to eat in my French culture for instance or even the Mexican culture is very big on the food and sharing the food with others and preparing the food with love and...

and you know care and to make sure you know everybody can enjoy it. And in the US, yes. The food is the event. Yes. The food becomes the main event whereas in America it feels like well in England as well I guess. The food is the kind of sub thing for the event you're doing or watching. Yeah exactly and that's you know that's how you attract people even like you know if you know you have good food you know like people would come to you even if you don't then they don't go.

And no, it was very interesting because my company is French culture kind of and we would give... So for people to come to the office, we used to do like free Wednesday lunch and Wednesday was the day everybody would come to the office, you know, because you have free lunch. And then now they know it's good food. So, you know, so it's very interesting. And also, like...

Even with my friends or my very, yeah, very close, you know, everywhere I go, for me, it's like so important to sit down and prepare food and try the food. And some people, they're like just American would be more like they don't really care, you know, they can have a bag of chips and they can skip a meal. And for me, it's like there's no way I'm gonna skip a meal, you know? So it's all these differences now very, yeah, it's very...

James Doran (25:09.677)

And it's funny. It's interesting. That's great. And on to food. I know you're vegan. How have you found it being vegan in New York compared to France? my God. In France, paradise. And back in France, I'm an extremist. People, you know, they're like, they really think that, you know, this is ridiculous. I mean, French people really think it's ridiculous and...

and they don't really understand why I'm vegan. Even though they are like, French people are so aware about the environment, if we do comparison like this between American and French people, I do think French people, you know, they recycle, they do their compost, they lower their meat consumption, they don't consume too much water, or like they don't waste so much food, and you know, they are so aware of the environment and everything.

But because the food is like a national thing you cannot really touch. Exactly. So here in New York, because it's like in the UK, in the UK the population of the Indian like exploding because it's not in their nature to think too much about the food and they really don't care. In the US...

They're also very open to, you know, people who have, well, like gluten -free or lactose intolerant or, well, like, whatever. And in the, in France, people would be like soldiers mental every week. so, so I cannot, I cannot cook anything because you don't eat anything. But it's like, no, I eat things, but there are things I cannot or I don't eat, right? So it's, it's very different where like French people can be so...

close -minded related to, you know, the the people could eat or for value they they don't want to eat. So that's yeah, that's very interesting. So that's why like for me, New York is like it's a paradise because first of all, I have a vegan restaurant in every block. Yes, absolutely. They're like, I don't know. I have a list of the vegan restaurants. There must be like 500 restaurants in New York. It's crazy.

James Doran (27:34.413)

These are the only three -star Michelin restaurant, vegan restaurant in New York. All over the world, there is no other three -star restaurant. They're starting to use green Michelin stars, haven't they? I think. Do you have green Michelin stars, I believe? No, I think it's green, which is like a sustainable restaurant as well. Which is also a good thing. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, so yeah, very, very different in terms of...

Friends will be more traditional in a way related to fruit. I guess your point of science being more as a society better at environmental impacts, recycling, etc. Kind of might outweigh if you have one meat dish a week as opposed to you actually doing anything else and that meat is from the farm down the road. I guess McDonald's burgers might be from the other side of the country or the world. It's the balance of...

It becomes a big debate really is, you know, where does the food come from with you on the vegan side though? It should be which better for the environment with, and then maybe over time we can go back to having locally sourced meat if it was, you know, from your next door neighbors. I think we're two years from that happening. It's quite interesting to understand. I think that's enough for section two. Go in section three.

James Doran (29:04.557)

Hey, welcome to section three of the podcast all about it's kind of a review of your time. I still haven't named it, which is annoying, but yeah, it's just, you talking about your, your favorite, your best, what is your favorite part of Mexico and you're there, what's your favorite thing to do? wow. everybody's like so precious and so fantastic. and I have, you know, many people as we, you know,

where they should go studying and where they should go, you know, like travel. And for me, like, you can go anywhere. You can have the best experience. So for me, like, I had this joke, you know, I'm French, so I have this joke, please, Belgium, sometimes where I would be, you could go to Belgium and have this fantastic abroad experience, you know, like, you know, it's okay, it's next door, but you know, like, you make your own experience. So.

For me, when people ask me what's my favorite thing, I'm like I have hard time because there's something beautiful in every single state, especially Mexico. Mainly not so much what makes the US. But it's a different story. Because you've traveled through it. You've traveled a lot. Yeah, I back from New York to San Francisco and then I went to San Diego. So I see a lot, especially, yeah, like...

some state would be like so focused into monoculture. So you only see corn fields and you like so much diversity that the landscape is not, I mean, became like something very standardized and like, you know, corn fields everywhere and cattle fields. So it's kind of pretty sad to see as opposed to other country where they really like.

conserve their diversity like friends or even Mexico, even though it's in the north of Mexico. But yeah, they tend to, we tend to make sure we have this diversity of fields and the seeds we are using. So yeah, it's, it's a, it's a huge difference between the country. I guess based on your answer, then your biggest advice to someone is probably be enjoy wherever you're traveling because you're a side of the gem somewhere. Yes.

James Doran (31:25.997)

Honestly, especially if you're like, you know, if you, I was reading a book yesterday, it's a back journal, it's a backpacking journal. And this guy was like from the UK and he's used to travel all over the world. And so he's like, you know what, I gonna bike from Southwest of England and then go to Northeast of England. So he's like, you know, doing a diagonal of England by King.

And there are so many things that you don't see all because the these are different season, you know, like everything can be very different depending on the time you're going could you could have a festival that makes up a shitty city metaphor, you know, like it's a yeah. So I mean, I think the bike ride is land's end to John Grades, which is a really popular ride from Cornwall to Scotland. Yeah. And yeah, you go through the whole country.

It's on my list to do, but I've not yet got to it. One day. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, no, I think it's a lot about what are you looking for? Are you looking for to do whatever other people have done already? I mean, it's pretty hard. So you have to do kind of an introspection about, okay, what do I like? And based on what do you like, then the experience can be very different.

I don't know if you like, you know, visiting coffee shop and, you know, go on small hikes or if you like shopping or United States, it's very different. I guess it's knowing, knowing what you want to get out of the experience and then you can tailor it to your own kind of desires and do some research maybe, but also going in open -minded is also quite nice. I like just wandering freely without knowing where I'm going and you stumble across something majestic.

like a coffee shop or... Yeah, I'm kind of the same. I don't like to be too organized and I like to have a space for surprise or space for wonder or yeah, exactly. Completely. And then, so you obviously have some advice for traveling. What advice would you give someone traveling to the US? What should they expect to see? If they're European, what's the biggest difference? I guess holidays is what I could think of. To travel to work if...

James Doran (33:53.197)

Assuming they already have a visa or a plan or assuming they don't. Assuming that if someone is looking to move from Europe or France to America, what piece of advice would you give someone to, I guess, acclimatize quickly? Well, yeah, the world culture is very different between the US and Europe. I think mostly based on in the US, they really don't have much vacation.

so sometimes you can have as low as two weeks, which is nothing. So because they don't have much vacation, they would have lowered, you know, they would work less during the day. So most of the time is very known for the nine to five, even though you might work a little bit more, but because you have so less vacation, they have, yeah, they work less during the day.

That would be the, you know, the, the stereotype. They depend on your industry, you know, it depends on your job, what you're doing. And obviously, you know, some location would be hard work worker, like New York, San Francisco, stuff like that. And in France or in Europe, yes, we, we, the priority is the, is the, is the priority life.

so love vacation and even the UK, they did an amazing thing where instead of having five, five days a week, they do four days a week. Right. In some, some companies yet, which has not gotten, gotten to my company yet. I did know there was a big file after COVID of four day weeks. So in a lot of companies have stayed with it. They're saying, your productivity stayed up, but you're only working.

four days, maybe that's 30 odd hours a week rather than 40, which helps people get the extra day. So, yeah, I mean, depending on the country, but we in Europe, we tend to be a little bit more productive, I would say, just because we have other parities, probably. And for instance, like in Denmark,

James Doran (36:11.949)

It's very important for them to make sure they work and have also like the end work at like 3 or 4 p So yeah, work -life balance is very important. But then you go to the most capital, you would see like hard worker everywhere. It really depends on what you're looking for and what your balance. Also, I think it also depends on how old you are.

You know, if you've been working your ass off your entire career, you might want to break or not. Or you might burn out. Yeah. So yeah, it's very, it's very important to, to keep a balance. yeah. And besides work, absolutely. Perfect. And kind of my last question is what's your favorite saying in America? What's the favorite local phrase which you use today or just like listening to?

In New York, especially, I really like fake it until you make it. I mean, that is pretty, pretty synonymous with America. So thank you, Arthur, for joining me on this podcast. I really appreciate your time and learning more about your experience in Mexico and in the States. It's really interesting to understand like how you got across and the requirements to, you know, you chose a startup rather than a bigger financial consultancy to be able to travel abroad. That's very kind of brave. And I guess the route most people won't take.

so yeah, thank you for sharing information with me and hopefully people who listen in and watch will, will get some really good advice and inspiration to follow your footsteps. is there anything you want to say more or do you want to, I guess, share your social media accounts so people can come and see more of your stuff? Yeah, absolutely. You can follow my crazy adventure.

About like zero waste veganism banking or also like just so human experience Through my Instagram account, which is here on my planet Yeah, that's it. Thank you so much James for having me It's worth following because it's quite funny and I guess the most recent stuff has been shocking But you've made it so so humorous in in the state of us falling off a bike. So well -done you sir

James Doran (38:29.229)

finding the humor in such a such a instance. And as always, if you did find something insightful or or useful from this podcast, please get in touch. If you have any questions, please leave them in the comments and we'll see you next time.