E051 - The Healing Journey: Lessons Learned in Switzerland

James Doran (00:06.082)

So hello and welcome to the Expat Pod. My name is James, your host, today I'm joined by Delicia. And, Delicia, you're from California or from America. And you grew up in the States, but lived in Switzerland for a little while. So, if you want to give us a quick introduction of yourself.

Delicia

I'm Delicia and my last name's Niami, like Miami, but with an N. Yeah, I was born and raised in California. I am a California girl at heart and...

I love California and I'm an author. I'm writing a series of books called Resilient AF. The first book, Kissing Asphalt, is out. And as I was telling you, James, that thank you for having me on, by the way. As I was telling you that the first part of my life was kind of interesting because when I was four, I was kidnapped and taken to Baghdad for almost a full year, 11 and a half months.

and my mom finally got us back on my fifth birthday. But when I came home, I spoke nothing but Arabic. I spoke, read, and wrote Arabic. And it was amazing to me how quickly the English came back to me, which I was grateful for when I got home. But I also, when I was in my 20s, when I was 23, I took a trip around Europe and ended up falling in love with Switzerland.

Ended up staying there for about eight months until I ran out of money and came back home to California, saved my money with the entire goal of going back to Switzerland to live and packed my records and my cat and I moved back to Switzerland. So yeah, and I stayed as long as I could. What a great introduction. I'm sure we'll unpack that

rest of the podcast.

James Doran (02:10.35)

Hello, welcome to section one of the podcast about getting there. So, Delicia, this is kind of the kind of prelude to your traveling. It's all the things you needed to do before you moved. maybe with the kind of summer you did, the kind of traveling abroad, the eight months you did before you tried to move, was there anything you needed to do to do that? Was there anything you needed to kind of sort out before going to Europe for that long?

Delicia

Well, and I honestly, I didn't know that I was going to move there. The first time I went, I was just traveling to Europe and it was my first time traveling to Europe and I had a full itinerary. And I talk about this in my second book, Not My Circus that should be coming out actually by the time your podcast is out. So yeah, I had a full itinerary and I had every intention on keeping that full itinerary, I ended up in Spain and then I went to Geneva, which was a nice welcome.

but as far as like preparing for the trip and everything, since I had a full itinerary, it took me all the way through Europe, including Greece. I basically just prepped as if I was going on a very long vacation and I bought an open -ended ticket and I don't know if they still have those, but this was 30 years ago. So I found an open -ended ticket that flew into London.

and out of London and it was $350 round trip. Oh wow. So it was, you know, way back when, but I jumped on it because I figured it was open -ended and I in that way if something were to happen and things were to change, you know, I was in my 20s. So I didn't have a job. I didn't have a home to come back to. I had my cat who was at my best friend's house. But other than that, just, it was my first time ever out of the country outside of

Iraq, obviously, but it was my first time out of the country and the first time I got to go to Europe after hearing my friends. I went to a pretty affluent high school and I had a lot of wealthier friends and a lot of them would take trips to Europe and I'd watch them go, you know, and ask them about how it was, never thinking that I would be able to go, you know, because when I moved out, had to start college and work.

James Doran (04:30.294)

ate for my own way. You my mom was a teacher. She didn't have the money to send me to Europe, but it wasn't until two of my cars got stolen in a very short period of time that my mom decided to save money for me. And she actually was the reason why I was able to go. So as soon as I had X amount of money, then I started to plan my trip. And I used Rick Steves Europe through the back door.

because I really wanted to see alternative places to go, not just the tourist traps. I wanted to go see those as well, obviously, the Eiffel Tower and all that stuff. But I wanted to go to the back country to really see how people lived in the countries that I went to. I wasn't really that interested in seeing the tourist traps, you know? I really just wanted to get immersed in the culture, if you will. And that was really hard to do in the youth hostels.

Yeah, that was a party, was probably New Fossils, I guess. Yeah. Did you speak French, Spanish, German, Italian before you went or did you tried? Obviously English you'd be fine with. Just English, English only. And American English as you British people call it. I learned that in Europe, I learned that quick. It was like, you don't speak English, you speak American. And I was like, what are you talking about?

But that was the first time I had ever heard that in my life. I'm like, these people are nuts. To be fair, when I moved abroad, everyone spoke American English because TV, film, songs are all American English. So if you're a Brit going abroad, you have to be the ambassador for the British language. things like aluminium, not aluminum. Schedule, not schedule.

Exactly. mean, Canadians too, but like, you know, that I could pick up on a Canadian accent in a hot minute. Like, and people are always like, how do you know? I'm like, it's very easy to tell the Canadian accent, but. It is a crazy language. you know, for the same, for the same language we're speaking, it's the semi differences, colloquialisms. And even in, even in the same country, like in England, it's a very small island, but you've got so many big cities where they've all got their own different interpretations of language and different uses for different words and different names for things.

James Doran (06:49.634)

America being vastly bigger, I'm sure every state's got it. So absolutely. Yeah. Even within Northern California and Southern California, you have different dialects and different sayings and like that, you know, so it's kind of amazing. But you as a writer must love it because you've got so much like a sandbox to play in with language because it really does help before you moved. And before you before you went on your Euro trip

Was there anything you were thinking about Europe in terms of what were your impressions of it looking as something that hasn't been before? So bucket list was Greece for sure. I really wanted to go to Santorini and see the, you know, all the white houses and the hills and stuff like that. Bern, believe it or not, was actually not even on my itinerary. And we'll get into that when we get into it. But yeah, wasn't even... I had Geneva on my itinerary and then Zurich. I

right over the place I ended up living, which is really interesting. It was interesting how I'm very methodical. I'm a big planner. I plan things out months and months and months in advance. And so I had specific things in mind that I wanted to do. I wanted to go see the Eiffel Tower. I had to go to Amsterdam and go to the coffee shops. That was a must, you

And way back then, like weed was very illegal in California, but, you know, that was something that I was like, I had to go see what that was all about. So that was pretty exciting to me. I wanted to go see the theater district in London and ride on a double decker bus and eat some fish and chips while I was there, which I found very hard to do. I found a lot more Indian street food than fish and chips in London.

I was very surprised. It was difficult to find my fish and chips, but I found them. then I was really excited about seeing Paris. And it was just, and after I read the Europe Through the Back Door stuff, I got more excited about certain things like Salamanca and Spain and going to these little hidden places that nobody really knew about like Gimmelwald in Switzerland. You ask anybody in Switzerland,

James Doran (09:07.53)

yeah, I'm going to Gimmelwald. I guarantee you they'll say there's no Gimmelwald in Switzerland because every single Swiss person I've ever asked like, yeah, I just came from Gimmelwald. There's no Gimmelwald in Switzerland. You must mean Grindelwald. And I say no Gimmelwald. And they say, no, I'm sorry though. It doesn't exist. And I'd have to pull out my map and show them and they'd go, Gimmelwald. I've never heard of such a place, you know?

And so was places like that that Europe Through the Back Door sent me to that I felt so privileged to just be able to experience, you know? It was amazing. So I had a lot to look forward to, especially a poor kid from North Hollywood, you know, that finally was gonna get to go off and see the world. It was a pretty, one of the best times in my life.

planning for that trip. then you found out with Switzerland from that trip. So when you got back to the US, then what did you do in order to be able to go back again and try and move there? Yeah. So the first time I went, I stayed for about eight months and it was, I mean, do you want me to talk about how I ended up in Bern or do you want to

Yeah, no, no, all about it. Because did you move to Bern originally when you went back? No, so basically what happened was I was traveling through Europe and I was on my itinerary following my path and I had been to Spain and I went into Geneva and I stayed at a pension in Geneva and then my next stop was Gimmelwald, which is a little teeny tiny mountain town up in the middle of nowhere.

They have one youth hostel and it runs on the honor system. At the time it was five Swiss francs. And you just left your money before you left. And there was no food up there. So you had to bring all your food with you. And there were Canadians and Australians and Americans and, you know, people that were not from Switzerland staying there. And they were all mostly hikers that were there for this incredible, amazing.

James Doran (11:25.934)

mountain town that you can, I I hike through the most incredible places. I remember hiking and I write about this in my book where I hike behind a waterfall that was literally like coming over me. And it was so incredible. sat down and had my lunch there and it was like, I had never, I lived in Hawaii when I was 14, which was incredible and beautiful and amazing,

Switzerland was something else, you know, and this was kind of my first like, whoa, into like, wow, this country is beautiful. And so at dinner one night we were chatting and one of the guys had asked me, where are you going next? And I said, Zurich. And they said, whoa, that's a big jump from here. Have you ever heard of Bern? And I said, yes, the capital of Switzerland, right? I hadn't planned on going there. And he said, well, I think you should go.

because it's really cool and the people are amazing and I think we'll really like it a lot and it's not as busy as Zurich. And I said, okay, why not? So was the first time my itinerary changed on the trip and I was, as I got into Byrne, I was just, it was incredible. It was an incredibly beautiful place

I stayed at the youth hostel, which is right off the Aude River, and it was just so beautiful. I was just in awe. I went to sleep that night. The next day was Sunday, and I'm not sure if you have the same thing in Sweden or in the UK, but Sunday is a day of rest, and this is not something that exists in America. So I didn't.

Think about this being a day of rest, all the restaurants being closed, no food, no grocery stores are even open. It's crazy. Like you're not even allowed to do your laundry in Switzerland on Sunday. Like it's very, really seriously. So I started walking up the hill like a naive American, you know, hoping that I would be able to go find a restaurant that I could eat at. And I ran into this little old lady who was walking down the hill.

James Doran (13:47.118)

And I said, excuse me, because the hill was very steep and I was tired and hungry. I'd eaten all my food at Gwbald. And I said, excuse me, do you speak English? And she said, yes, a little bit. And I said, you know, if I walk up this hill, can I get some food? And she looked at me and she said, food? No, honey, it's Sunday. And I, okay. She goes, there's nothing open on Sunday. Are you hungry? And I said, I explained the situation. I said, yeah, I'm hungry. I just came from

I have no food. And she said, come with me. And I was like, okay. You know, from LA, I'm not really that trusting of people. So she's 80 year old lady. And I'm like, okay, well, whatever. I had just had some experiences in Spain that had kind of opened my eyes to being a little more trusting of people.

I was like, okay, so she took me home and she turned out to speak a little bit more than just a little bit of English. We ended up having conversations and she fed me a whole meal. And I was telling her, you know, I love staying at youth hostels. I love traveling, but I don't really get to meet the people that I want to meet. I'm in Switzerland. I want to meet Swiss people. I don't want to meet Canadian Australians and Americans. And she was like, I'll be right

But she came back and said, I just called my granddaughter. She's married to an American man. She's going to come pick you up and you're going to go have dinner with a real Swiss family. And I was like, what? And she goes, but you just ate, but that's okay. You can eat again. And I was like, what? And so they took me to their house and fed me and they told me about this place called the Kleine Schanze that I should go hang out at. And I stayed the next day. I went to the Kleine Schanze.

These guys from Ghana drove by on their bikes and said hello. And I said hi, and they sat down and started talking to me, and they were refugees. At the time, was a really big, they like 25 % refugees from Ghana. And they ended up taking me to their house, which was in the slums of Bern, and feeding me African fufu. And it was like an experience I had never had. And then we went

James Doran (16:06.474)

and met a whole bunch of other people. took me to this place called the Grossa Chansa, which is right in front of the university. And I met a whole bunch of people there and I just kept meeting people. And every night that I would meet somebody, they would say, where are you staying? And I'd say the youth hostel and they'd say, no, no, no, no, you come home with me. And I'm like, what? And they would feed me. And I mean, it was the most incredible experience I had ever had in my life. I ended up meeting this guy named Danu.

And I'm still friends with a lot of these people today, 30 years later. And I met a guy named Danu and he allowed me to stay in his apartment with him. And I cooked meals for him and he was stoked about that. And I just hung out and like my friend Ollie, who's still my friend today, he worked at this place called the Rytalr, which was

unbeknownst to me was this anarchist place that we would go to and we would go get meals for five francs, like a full good meal for five francs. And then we'd go up, they had a little tea shop that Ollie worked at and we'd go and have tea and sit around and play games. And it was just the most incredible time. And I met so many people. I remember my friend Nadine, who I'm also still friends with.

she, she had told me before I left, you know, you have so many friends and I'm like, yeah, but you have a lot of friends too. And she goes, yeah, but look, you know, I know these people. And she pointed to her little thing and she goes, but you know, these people and those people and those people and those. And I was like thinking to myself, I mean, if you read my books, you'll see like I was the bullied kid. I was the kid who was sexually molested.

I was the kid who was abused. It's all about overcoming trauma in my books. And so this experience for me was earth shattering. I can't even tell you to be like the popular kid, to be the kid that was like not only loved, but liked. You know, that's not something I've really experienced in my lifetime by many people. And so when I felt that it was

James Doran (18:28.12)

When I decided to leave and go continue my itinerary, I thought like, you crazy? What are you doing? You know? But I did, I continued my itinerary, I went all the way to Greece and I couldn't stop thinking about Switzerland. And I ended up cutting, changing my path and lying back, flying back to, to burn and surprising everyone. And I stayed there basically until I ran out of money. And the way that I got back to London,

to fly home on my open -ended ticket was I don't know how I got this idea. I'm a crazy girl, but I decided to make necklaces. And so I went to the craft store and I bought all these random things to make necklaces and leather chains and all this stuff. And I started making necklaces and I went to the Grosseschanze and I learned how to say, by that time I could speak a little bit of Swiss German. I learned how to say I'm selling necklaces.

in Swiss German and they were like a hot commodity. Everybody was buying my necklaces. I made enough in like, I don't know, a couple of weeks to go back to take the flight home. So yeah, and that's how I ended up in Bern and kind of crazy story, but like it was the highlight, one of the highlights of my life for sure. And like I said, I'm still friends with a lot of these people and they're really

I mean, Ollie and I talk often. So, you know, watch, he's a grandpa now. So I've seen his kids and his kids' kids, you know, so it's really fun. That's amazing. So then you went home, I guess you couldn't stop thinking about Burn when you got there. So you then wanted to try and move back, right? Yeah, that was the whole goal. 100%. That's all I wanted to do. And I was focused on

thousand percent I ended up moving in with my very perverted brother that I didn't realize at the time, but I ended up moving in with him in San Francisco and working for him. And then I also worked three different waitress jobs at night so that I could make tips. And that allowed me to practice my German because a lot of German people tourist in San Francisco.

James Doran (20:53.174)

So it was very helpful to me to do that. And then as soon as I saved my money is when I packed up my records and my cat and Danu, amazing guy that he is, he let me stay with him again in his apartment. And this time, obviously with my cat, so it was a little more permanent. And yeah, so then I started looking for jobs and that's when

figured out that the Swiss people love you as a tourist, but when you go to try and live there, it's not easy even a little bit, at least not 30 years ago it wasn't. And it was things like you can't work unless you have a bevilligong, which is a permit. You can't get a bevilligong.

unless you have worked in Switzerland for 10 years or have had an apartment or have had an apartment and lived there and been self sufficient for 10 years. So I'm like, how that makes it virtually impossible to do. So I ended up having to find a job under the table and I found a job working on a farm.

And I was taking care of five horses, six horses and five dogs. And it came with my own little scooter. And I got my own little apartment right next to the barns, which was really, really cool. The lady I worked for was a German lady who was married to a Swiss man, twice her age. She was kind of the epitome of what German

are portrayed in movies and stuff like that, you know, is very staunch and, you know, and she was very much like that. But like all the German people I've ever encountered aren't like that at all. So it was really like, it was really weird to actually run into a German person that like was like those types that they portrayed in the movies, you know, because I'm with everyone I had ever met had been super cool and just normal like me, you know, but this lady was very...

James Doran (23:16.68)

very staunch and very authoritarian and very, you know, she treated me like I was a refugee. To the point where I had to tell her, look, lady, I'm American. I can go back to the States anytime I want to. I'm not a refugee, you know? And even if I was, you shouldn't be treating anybody like that, you know? I mean, she just was like very demeaning

It was really hard as it was there that the homesickness hit me. And it was there that what I learned later was Crohn's disease that started. And so it was really a tough time. Once I got that job, was kind of all downhill from there. I enjoyed it. I had fun. I didn't get to see my friends as often.

as I wanted to anymore. couldn't just go hang out with them. It was like, you know, it was different when you start working versus just hanging out. And the work was difficult. It was difficult to take that kind of pressure and attitude. To be in that environment and then having the energy to go out in the evening is harder because you're so exhausted from working in a foreign language or working in that environment.

You know, just, especially on a field or on farm, it's a lot of manual work and a lot of hard work, either in the heat or in the altitude, it's quite high up in the amps. It's probably quite exhausting in that sense as well. So yeah, the other thing I was going to say is, you know, I got sick there and it wasn't until, and I write about this starting in the second book, Not My Circus, but also to the third book.

The Queen of Silver Linings, which is the third and final book in the series. And that book talks about my healing journey and all the things that I've learned and kind of why I have Crohn's to begin with, you know, is I think partly it started in Baghdad when I held everything in my solar plexus and I was petrified the entire time I was there. And I learned about that when I did breath work in Sedona.

James Doran (25:43.374)

So the third kind of talks goes into that kind of stuff and ties everything together. And in Switzerland, when I got sick, what I didn't realize is that when I came home about 20 years after I got back, maybe 15, I went to an allergist and got tested for allergies. And my biggest allergies are barley and hops. Like top, top,

And I didn't realize that all of the hay in Switzerland is made from barley. And so there were times when I would bale the hay, when I would, and the worst part I think for me was in the snow, when I was cleaning the hay and I would have to stomp on the pile to truss it down with my boot and it was snowing, the heat would get to it. And so I was actually inhaling vapors from the barley into my body.

while I was working there. So I think, unbeknownst to me, that my body had like a really bad inflammatory reaction to that. And then in addition to that, I'm somebody who's very independent. like when I was moving, my mom begged me not to go, begged me. And I was like, bye mom, you know, I just, I'm going, I'm living my life. I'm having fun, you know, and.

When the homesickness hit me, I never expected anything like that. Like, it hit me hard and fat. And it was like the most depressed I think I've ever been in my life. And it was just like every day, I literally felt my heart cracking. Like, I felt the physical pain of it from missing my mom, from missing

from missing my brother of all people, you know? Like, I mean, you never think things like that. My friends, like, just missing macaroni and cheese and American pizza and Mexican food. You know, can't get Mexican food in Switzerland. Sorry, maybe you can now, but 30 years ago, they didn't know what Mexican food was. They tried, but good luck, you know? so, I mean, it was coming from California, we get Mexican food, you know?

James Doran (28:08.758)

I mean, it was just like little things like that thing you never think you miss that just target your heartstrings every single day, you know? I'm sure you probably have the same thing. You probably miss bangers and mash. I don't really eat them very often to be fair. I miss mostly like confectionery stuff and cheap beer. Cause in Sweden, like alcohol is highly controlled cause

It's all sold by one company and it's very expensive. like a pint of beer is like 10 pounds, whereas it's half the price in the UK. So I missed that. More for the social side of it, just for drinking beer. But they had very good beer in Sweden because it's expensive. So they make it good. And I missed daylight, which is unusual because England still goes quite dark, but it's enough difference. It's difficult. Yeah. And it's like random things like

some certain foods I'd eat, which maybe wouldn't even be typically British, but it would just be something I'd have quite a lot because England's such a great multicultural nation. have influence from all over. As you mentioned, lots of Indian street food in the UK. We have amazing Indian restaurants in the UK because we've got a lot of great Indian communities in the UK. We've got a wonderful cross -section of lot of, you know, all stems from the old empire, has its checkered past, but it's meant

coming to the island of Great Britain, there's a lot of great people from all over the world because we're in restoration, draw all this incredible culture from like the Caribbean and know, we're still using all those amazing places. So you have all this great food in that sense as well, which you kind of miss that you miss just people being out, going to a pub or a bar or a restaurant in the evening, which didn't really happen in Sweden, people just kind of stick to their own kind of thing, which was a little hard for me because didn't know anyone.

or when you were handing for people, I couldn't keep asking them to hang out with me because they had their own lives to deal with or families or whatever. So, you know, as in the UK, you could just walk to a pub, you'd be by yourself and you'll start talking to about five to ten people and maybe make some new friends from it. Didn't really happen that much in Sweden unless it was on in the summer or like random nights when it's 2am or something. But you've got work the next day, you can't just go and do that. Yeah, that's a big cultural

James Doran (30:30.958)

cultural change for sure. massively and you know even though it's still you know quite European countries there's still a lot of similarities it's those small things which you know make your day your day and make you kind of deal with the things you want like your mac and cheese or you know just little things like that which you know you think it's not a big thing but then when you are in speaking another language

There's so many things that are different. It's the kind of accumulation of all those small things which make you think just seek something that's familiar So I'd listen to a lot of like BBC radio or I'd watch British TV shows would help me a lot as well when I was Feeling a bit homesick because we do comedy very well. So you do indeed you do indeed My brother used to always subject me to watch Benny Hill when I was a kid and I hated

Yeah, we had The Office first. Yeah, wasn't Wasn't Benny Hill was way before that though. Yeah, yeah, yeah, completely. It's killed so many cops or something, wasn't it? My brother loved it. It was like, I just wanted to watch Happy Days. I don't know if I ever watched Happy Days, actually. I've not subjected myself to watching that yet. Well, that's what's great about streaming nowadays, right? You have the opportunity to do all that. And I mean, I have to say, like, sometimes I really don't like technology, but...

The one thing I can say that's fantastic about technology is I was able to get back in touch with all my Swiss friends, you know, and people that I've met around the globe that I normally wouldn't be able to reach out to. mean, WhatsApp is amazing, you know, and I video chat and he sends me videos of his granddaughter singing and it's just like, you know, I feel like I'm part of their life now and before.

Like even when I went there, you know, in the 90s, because I went in 93, it just, yeah, it's not that it's totally different than it was. And I think it, one way technology is great and another way it kind of eliminates that whole, like you were saying, walking down the street and you meet a bunch of people. that doesn't really happen because now you walk down the street, everyone's on their arms. Yeah, I think in big cities it's...

James Doran (32:44.67)

It's definitely like, sure. think small towns still have a bit of that community vibe, which is quite nice. it's certainly neighborhoods in big cities might do, but yeah, it's still a lot rarer because your attention is being, I guess, know, bidded for in so many different ways. Now you've got so much media on your phone or music or, you know, things which can isolate you or keep you in your own world. Listen to podcasts. you know, that kind of stuff, which

didn't really have, right? So I remember growing up and I had a Gameboy without a backlight and I was like, the backlight was the best thing ever because I could play it in the car in the night time and be out annoying my parents or looking for a streetlight to read a book or something, you know? Look, I wonder if I go back to the Grossa Schanze if there'd be people hanging out like there was before or not, you know what I mean? Like I probably wouldn't have had the opportunity to have the experiences that I had in Switzerland.

Had technology been a thing? Because I wouldn't have met, as all the amazing beautiful people that I met, I wouldn't have probably met. Their face would have been in their phone. And I would have wandered around by myself, you know? It would have been a completely different experience. And I think about that kind of stuff now and like, technology is great, but like, what are we missing at the same time? know? I the spontaneity's gone.

You might still get the connection because you're easily seeking it still, you're traveling like yourself but people who are local might not be looking for it because they need it. But you know there's apps like Meetup and things which I use quite a lot in Sweden which you could find a local writing club or a language cafe or you could find a disc golf, people can go to disc golf or go for hiking or go to the pub but usually there were other people who were also traveling or they were expats.

In my case, that's what it was, people who weren't from the country because they were also in a situation where they were lonely and bored. So if you've got lonely and bored people, they all go to a pub. That's basically what happened. But you wouldn't have the spontaneity as you were describing with local people as much, know, especially if you're not working in an office or in environment where you're immersed in society. It's

James Doran (35:01.422)

Yeah, it's very, very different. I miss those times, you know? Sometimes I reminisce. wish I could hit the rewind button. You know, go for a national purge of technology or something. right? Just one week a year, you know? Although at the same time, I love my meta quest and I love being able to play games with my nephew who's, you know, what, he's like 45 miles away from me, but it feels like we're in the same room. I mean, it's cool. And give and tape, right? Plus and minus with

in the world. guess looking back at your time then, if you could tell yourself something before you moved, which would have enhanced your experience, what would you have told yourself? What might you have warned your younger self? I would say have more patience and I would jump in two feet forward. Don't be so hasty to get back there because if I would have gone

things the right way, which I'm not even really sure what those are still. But I mean, if I would have done the research and said, okay, let me see if I can get some, I know that Switzerland's really good about giving student visas now, you know, so maybe I could have gone there and gotten into the University of Bern and I would have been on a different trajectory, you know, they teach classes in English there. So I learned about that when I was in

you know, after, long after I had been there, you know, actually I learned about it before Trump became president the first time because I was thinking about moving out of the country. And so I started looking at my options and I was thinking Mexico or I was thinking Switzerland and Switzerland I found out that, you know, they teach classes in English, that they, can get a student fairly easily and that's probably the direction I would have gone instead of trying to

go willy -nilly and stay with a friend on his couch and then get a job at a farm and you know I probably would have done things the right way and that I definitely would have changed things and I did actually two of my friends Padu and Ollie actually offered to marry me so that I could stay there which was really sweet but you know it wasn't like right for anyone to do that so so yeah I

Delicia (37:25.036)

I think I would have done more research and I would have done it the right way. And I would have gone in on a student visa, I think. Because I didn't actually start my education, my college education, I did my of my undergraduate at community college, putting myself through community college, but it wasn't until after I came back that I moved to Santa Cruz and went to UCSC. So I could have actually started my college.

in Switzerland and how cool would have that been? But I didn't really have an advisor or anybody giving me advice. It was all whatever I could come up with in my own head at the time and I was only in my 20s. Without other people watching this or listening to this or getting your advice and taking it on, so you're passing it forward, so to speak, and hopefully inspiring people to go enjoy burn.

It's amazing, it's amazing, Switzerland and everybody gets, it's funny you live in Sweden because if you ask, I would say nine out of 10 people in America and they say, oh, where did you live? I'd say I lived in Switzerland and they say, well, how was it living in Sweden? And I'm so

No, dummy. Switzerland is like this big, Sweden is like that big, and it's way up here in map, you know? It's like people don't even know where it's at, but it's the most amazing, beautiful country, and the people are just incredible, and they're just like... It really, changed my life. The people of Switzerland changed my life. Well, it's quite a lot of similarities, suppose. They both don't use the euro, they both get a lot of snow, a lot of beautiful landscapes, but yeah, it's just

The size is much different and I'm pretty sure the daytime hours are much different. But Switzerland is beautiful. I do enjoy it there as well. It's very a populous place to go skiing though if you're European. Yeah, it's a lovely country. mean, and it's just for me, it's the people and it's even like my favorite place on the planet is Mexico. And it's because I'm humbled every time I go there. And the people in Mexico are

Delicia (39:37.612)

happy and they have nothing and they're happy. And me that's, you know, it just, I embrace that because they live their life not through wealth, but through love. There's a different way of measuring wealth. It's not monetary. It's like friendships or experiences is, know, wealth is a paradigm you view it through and you

not see it by how much you've accumulated in terms of a number in your bank balance, but a number in your friendship list or a number of phone calls you have or experiences you've had. You talk with so much passion and so much emotion about your time when you were travelling through Switzerland, which is beautiful to witness for me because I could see it in the way you were saying about it. You just showed that that moment really touched you and really

left a mark on your life, which, you know, if you have those moments in your life, you're also looking for those summers or those years or whatever, just to have these amazing people and you're now very lucky to still be friends with them, which is amazing to hear. And it shows how much of an impression you left on their lives if they still want to be your friends, you even after what time you could just be in the American, you can

Europe for the summer like a lot of Europeans think but no it's not true. Not for all of us anyway I mean there are some of us and trust me I witnessed some of them while I was over there in Europe like and it was embarrassing for me as an American to see the way and the attitude that some of them had you know and it was just like well could I get a Canada sticker for my backpack please?

You know? But yeah, because I mean, that's not, that's not all of us, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, it's like, I guess it's like anything. You lump, you lump one characteristic of one person that you see into everybody. But I guess now with the whole Trump era, now we have a name for them and they're called Karens. So yeah, you know, but yeah, it's just, it's kind of interesting to see how things evolved. But like even back then it was, I mean, I'm, I'm always somebody who has the utmost respect

Delicia (42:00.872)

Any place I travel, know, I want to learn their language. I want to learn their customs. And that's what it's all about. I mean, why travel somewhere and just be demanding and think that you know what it's about? When no, when you're up, it's customary to dine for hours on end. It's not like a hurry up and stuff your face and get out of here kind of thing. Like that's not culture. And why not immerse yourself?

in that culture instead of trying to pull the culture that you're from to whatever country you go to. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it was an interesting, eye -opening experience. And like you had said before at some point in this conversation, it's all about learning. And I had done a lot of school before I traveled, but, I'll tell every single person and I try and tell every child, every kid that I run into, like traveling.

And traveling abroad specifically, traveling within the US is amazing. And we have so many different states and so many different things to see. And there's just amazing things. But traveling abroad, you get a completely different sense of the world that you do not see in America, that you absolutely don't see on American television or on the news, you know, unless you go out and watch

CNN and listen to PBS and you're out there listening to, you know, all of the stations that look both ways. But it's interesting because like I've been to places like Cambodia and I walked through the killing fields. To do something like that versus reading it in your history books, if you even do, here in America anymore, which you don't probably.

But to learn about Pol Pot, to learn about what happened in Cambodia, how many people, I mean, three million out of five million people of their country were killed. And we didn't hear about it in America. This happened when I was a kid in the 70s. And I remember hearing about the American who was lost at sea, who got taken by Cambodian soldiers. But that's all I ever heard of

Delicia (44:24.43)

You know, until I went to work for the company that I work for now and I met a woman who works there, who's from Cambodia, and she, at 17 years old, her whole entire family was killed in front of her face and she escaped. She escaped to Thailand and then she escaped to America and she never looked back. But like, it's mind -boggling to me to actually stand

in the place where it happened versus in the history books. To me, it's just so much more powerful and I got so much more out of it. And in addition to that, you get to see the Cambodian people and the fact that this happened to their grandparents, but they're still smiling. They have nothing and they're still smiling. Like it's mind boggling. I felt safer in Cambodia than I ever have in the States. You know, like.

mind -boggling to me, and then the people who stay in the States and don't get to see that, it just is heartbreaking to me. And honestly, I could say the same thing about Europeans coming to America. I've talked to so many Europeans who don't want to go to America, who no desire to come to America. America is beautiful, and it's not all dangerous, you

Of course there are places that are dangerous, just like there are places in Paris that are dangerous, in London that are dangerous. You know what I mean? Like there's dangerous places everywhere, but I live on the top of a mountain in the Santa Cruz mountains where I could see, you know, the ocean as it's snowing on my property. Like there's things you can't get where else in the world, you know? I mean, I'm just talking California. I mean, the wineries of Napa.

the 70, like you said, you know? mean, there's like the deserts here. Like, I mean, there's just amazing. Yeah, and New York City, like, holy crap, how could you go your whole life and not want to see New York City? It's amazing, you know? It's like just to be there and like, I cried the first time I was there because I was like, I was like, I'm standing on the corner of Miracle on 34th Street, you know? Like, and it was, it was

Delicia (46:45.23)

And it was Christmas time and everybody was there in the carriage rides and it was just like, it was glorious. And like I've tried so hard to get my friends from Switzerland to come visit me and nobody wants to, Ollie wants to, but he can't get his family to want to. like, yeah, nobody wants to come. And it's like, it's so beautiful. I just want to, I want to show people where I'm from as much as I want to see other people's culture. Thank you for your time. It's been really, really

I'm opening for sure to listen to your story and it's obviously been from a place of great darkness at times. But you seem to have a lot of love and light in your heart now, which is great to see that you've managed to heal. the way you talk about your friends in Switzerland when you first went really just kind of shows through how much they left an imprint on your life and on

your soul, which probably then made your future much brighter than you could have imagined before you went. So that's the beauty of living abroad or experiencing life abroad. And thank you for sharing that story with me and hopefully everyone listening. And I hope that's inspired people to go and following your footsteps and just travel and make their own friends and have their own stories.

talking about their grandkids with their friends and their older as well. It's that kind of beautiful thing. So thank you. And I don't know if you want to say where people can buy your books and find a bit more about them. absolutely. And thank you for the opportunity to talk about this because I haven't been afforded the opportunity to talk about my times in Switzerland. And it's honestly one of the fondest times of my life. So I was really excited about this and coming on and being able to talk about Switzerland and just my amazing

people over there. But you can find my books on Amazon right now. Kissing Asphalt is the name of it. And my website is www .kissingasphalt .com, A -S -P -H -A -L -T. And you can also find me on Instagram, Deletia Naomi Author, and on Facebook as well under Kissing Asphalt. And eventually I'm going to be doing the Resilient AF podcast.

James Doran (49:08.622)

Once my house is built and I have a space where I can do it. Yeah, I'm excited about that as well. So Incredible. Well, there's always the links will be below in the show notes if you are interested Please do go check it out and they should be going it should be out now the second book and possibly the third book So if they are they'll all be in the links below else. I'll update it when the third one comes out but as always thank you for watching this thing and Enjoying the story and if you have found something

inspiring or you have something you want to come up with, let us know in the comments, please do get in touch. Please share with your friends and family and anyone else you might know who wants to live abroad or would really find this conversation very meaningful to them. As always, we'll see you next time for the XPAT pod.