E064 - The Importance of Family in Relocation

James Doran (00:06.35)

So hello and welcome to the expat pod. My name is James, your host. And today I'm joined by Maayan. Maayan, you're originally from Israel, that's correct. And you're a big believer living in France, but do want to give us a quick overview of your, I guess, journey of what you've lived and why, and then what you do? okay. So thank you so much for having me first. And I'm really happy to be here and to share my journey abroad. So I was originally born in Israel. And when I was six years old, we moved

as a family to France for the first time. And then basically every three, four years we moved again between Israel and France all my life. This was back and forth Israel, France, Israel, France until three years ago I decided to come to France with my own family, my husband, my two daughters, and we now live in France. So for now we're here.

That's great. I'm sure we'll get into the why and how you did that in the next section.

James Doran (01:18.712)

So welcome to section one of the podcast on what getting there. So my, and this is where essentially I want to know the first of all, why you want to live abroad? You said you went abroad as a child. So maybe you were just kind of following your parents. So maybe you had less of a say, but coming back as an adult, what was the why? Why did you want to get back? What was it that, you know, manifested that all made you want to pursue that life again? So as I mentioned before, I moved

for the first time as a child and I had no say at all, but I had a wonderful childhood. And what I remember from living in France as a child is a lot of family time, a lot of adventures, a different culture, meeting new people, meeting new traditions was really exciting. And this is what I wanted to offer to my own kids. So I lived in Israel.

before coming here as an adult for about 10 years. And I always wanted to come back. I always wanted to come back and live as an adult in France. And it took a lot of time to convince my husband to do this crazy move together. But I always, my biggest why was the family time and the...

opportunities I can offer to my kids living in Europe, living in France specifically, because I remembered my own childhood and it's nothing like my own childhood right now because like it's almost 35 years ago. But it's still, I feel there's a lot more opportunities that I can offer my kids and opening them to a different culture and

teaching them to be open-minded and open to different kinds of people, different beliefs, different religions, everything. And I think it's super important as a human being to have those skills. And this is my biggest why. Perfect. And which part of France are you living in? Because it can be quite different depending on where you go. curious, which town are you in? So I'm just outside of Paris and I grew up

James Doran (03:42.776)

First at the beginning in a small city outside of Paris as well. But then as a teenager, I lived in central Paris and this was amazing as a teenager. was, I had the best time of my life. assuming that when you left, were quite good at French, was it fluent? Maybe you were fluent, but you had a good grasp of the language as a teenager. That's very interesting because I thought I was

really fluent in French. But then I came back as an adult and I felt that I'm missing a lot of vocabulary. There's a lot of areas that I never spoke French in, like politics, never spoke in French, and understanding the culture and talking to a pediatrician or, you know, another. I never done those things. So I had a basic vocabulary.

but I had to learn a lot and I discovered that my French is actually not that good as I thought so. I mean, I'm sure it's incredible. It's just you're probably hitting a bit past yourself because I'm sure most of your life you can probably get by, right? It's just the nuance of things like I probably couldn't do engineering in every language, but I can ask for food and drink, which is...

you know, what most people need the language for. but you know, there's, there's so many aspects of life that you don't realize that you don't have the vocabulary, the right vocabulary for it. know, even getting your internet and having a phone and all, you know, taking the car to the garage, all those things. never thought I would need those words and I had to learn them, but that's, that's fine. know, that's

part of the journey of living in it as an adult. It's very different than the life I had when I was here as a child or as a teenager. you were growing up in France, you do French? Were you at a French school or was it an international school? when I was a child, first grade was a French school, first, second and third grade. So I didn't know French when I came and started school.

James Doran (06:05.834)

at all, so started school with zero French. And then that's where I learned most of the French skills I have. And then when I came back as a teenager, I was 14 years old and then I went to an Israeli school. So it was all in Hebrew and I had, most of my friends were Israelis and we were speaking mostly in Hebrew. So I did have some...

out of school activities in French, so I did use French, but not as much. And I did learn another couple of years French in school, but it was not a French high school. That's, I guess that's understandable if Hebrew is your mother tongue and it's easier for you to do it all and you're not getting to a disadvantage by having to, you know, pass history in French.

if it's full of a lot of long complicated words. Wonderful. guess then when you move back, did you have French citizenship before you left? that when you had so when you came back it was much easier? So, you know, it's very interesting. I actually just realized because I asked my parents just before this podcast, hey, when did you get the French citizenship? Because I arrived at six years old to France, never knowing how I had

French citizenship. I never knew I was French and Israeli. And I realized last week that I had French citizenship when I was born. I have both nationalities and it makes things much easier for the back and forth.

but my husband, for example, is not French at all and he had to deal with all the French bureaucracy, having a visa and a car to seizure. And that's a funny, fun, thing to do. French bureaucracy is a lot. And because he doesn't speak French at all, I had to deal with it all. So. has he got, is it, you get a 10 year, but work permit? for now. So the first year he got.

James Doran (08:26.446)

one year permit and now he has two years permit and then he has to renew them and hopefully he'll get his citizenship. And your children then, I guess because the mother was French, was easier for them? So when they were born, I went to the French embassy and did for both of them the French citizenship. So they are French as well since they were born. It's quite fitting. So the father has got French children, but

When you moved in, did you know where you wanted to live? Did you know that the town you're living in now was where you wanted to go back? Or did you search around for jobs when you moved back? What was the kind of process of coming as an adult? So I knew I wanted to come back to live around Paris. This was my dream. I'm in love with the city. It's where I feel at home, really.

Paris is really, really expensive to live in, especially with kids. So we looked around Paris a little bit and then an opportunity came. It's really hard to rent an apartment in France if you don't have a basic dossier, which is, you you need to have a salary and show that you pay your taxes. And if you're just arriving and you never paid

your taxes, then you can show it. So it's really, really complicated. And we had an opportunity in this specific city and we took it. it's been, it's not the dream of Paris, but it's like 30 minutes outside of Paris. it's good enough for now. That's great. And in terms of work, then did you have a job lined up or were you working remotely or were you working on your career occupation then?

Before coming to France, I had my own graphic design studio. So I was working on my own for about 10 years and then COVID hit and I had to close it because I had no more clients. I was doing a lot of events, big corporate events and during COVID there was none. So I had to close this business and then it was just the time before we moved. So it was an opportunity.

James Doran (10:46.926)

to create something new, to reinvent myself. so I gave myself some time to figure out how I want to do things, what I want to do and shift my whole career and my whole life. Thanks. And then your husband as well, what was the way for him to find work or what was the story on his behalf?

His story is really interesting because he's a civil engineer. He's working for an Israeli company. And during COVID, he realized he could work remotely. And then he said, well, if I can work from home, then I can also work from another country. So he basically continued the same job he's doing, working remotely from France. He now has his own French company.

But he's still working with the same company in Israel. So doing the same job, working in Hebrew and doing the same job, he knows. Class class great. That's very useful to have that as an option. And your children, what were they? Were they a certain age in school? How did they find the move or what was the plan for them to kind of integrate in? So we prepared them very well for the move. So they knew we were moving.

it was like, I was really getting them excited about something new that is coming, a new language, meeting new people, living in a new city, living in a new country, discovering things. They've been to France before and they were excited, but then they arrived again without any friends. They were friends and they got to a friend's school, both of them. So my older daughter, was.

eight years old, seven and a half, and my youngest, was almost five and they didn't know how to speak French at all. So it was a bit stressful for them, especially the older one, but after six months or so, they were speaking fluently. And the older one, she got some help at school. There was a special program.

James Doran (13:08.654)

where the French education system is helping kids that are not speaking French. And there's a teacher that takes them for a couple of hours every week teaching them. And the year after she integrated Bully, both of them actually. And yeah, it's been very, very good for both of them. They both made friends and they now speak French better than Hebrew.

I guess that's, do you speak Hebrew at home still then? We're mixing it up because it was really important for us to help them integrate. So at the beginning, we really tried speaking in French, even at home, you know, watching French TV and reading books in French to help them integrate. And then after they will fully integrate, we tried to keep the Hebrew as well.

So we're mixing it up. Their dad is speaking more in Hebrew and I speak more in French. And then, you know, there are some topics. When I get angry, I switch to Hebrew. And when I want to explain something, they learned at school, I switch to French. When we're working out, working outside, for example, in the street or in the bus, I speak in French. I feel it's like more integrated.

That's great. there anything else you needed to try and work out before you made the move? I guess you found a place, you restarted a new career so there was not an issue in terms of finding jobs. Was there anything else you wanted to kind of think about? Did you have to get the school sorted before your children, before you moved as well? I think the biggest thing we had to do before the movie is really get them excited about the move.

and showing them that it's very, very positive. that there are, of course, there are challenges and obstacles and the language, for example, I'm making new friends and saying goodbye and it's all there and it's okay. We see them, we feel them too, but it's also very, very positive and we're worth a lot on this. And we'll get to it later, but that part of my life philosophy and

James Doran (15:33.352)

what we do now today. This is how I live. Challenges are always there, but so does opportunities and positive and life is like a one chance. we, teach my daughters a lot to live their lives and not just struggle and see all the bad things. Completely.

Well, I guess we can get into section two about your being there, which is, guess, where most of the anecdotes will come from.

James Doran (16:12.974)

So welcome to the podcast about being there. my, this is where essentially I want to understand your first impressions. Now, obviously you lived in France as a child. So I guess you kind of knew what to expect coming back as an adult. However, were there any differences when you kind of moved back? Had you romanticized in your head and reality is not as as great or because you moved outside of Paris, it's a bit different. What was the kind of initial impression when you, when you moved back? That's a great.

And I want to go back to the first time I arrived to France as a child, because you got to understand that coming to France from Israel after the Gulf War in the 90s, early 90s, it was a big, huge culture shock. Huge. It was, everything was so different. Everything was so amazing. As a child, I remember myself, was like, wow, what this?

country. Everything is so colorful. Everything is so shiny. There's so many people, so many different people. I'm gonna say it, but I've never seen colored people before. And I found it fascinating. was, you know, going and sticking to those people. had so many friends, you know, from different backgrounds. And I found it fascinating as a child.

And like I said to you at the beginning, we had a lot of family time together and we went a lot to nature and nature was like a forest, was a forest with so many trees and green and water and lakes. What I knew as a child, it was like a desert, couple of trees. It's nothing like I used to see before. And then when I came back,

as an adult I had this fantasy of lines being friends and well it's not reality because and I just posted something about it it's like you're not a tourist anymore you're like living in a country is not all about going to nature and seeing you know beautiful museums and walking in the streets and

James Doran (18:39.438)

and going to cafes, like it's life. You have to do your laundry and go grocery shopping and take your kids to the doctors. And most of the day, of the day to day is treating routine and nothing special about it. But then when I go out on a weekend on a stroll, sometimes I have to go to a shop and I...

roast the sand, you know, and I'm looking around me, I'm like, my God, pinch me, I'm living in the species. And then I'm so happy. And it's about finding this balance because the day-to-day life is basically the same as I had before, you know, pretty much the same. But then when I realized where I actually live and this is what I wanted, this was my dream, and I'm happy.

In terms of them, grocery shopping is quite a good one because it's one thing people don't really understand when you move abroad. It's quite difficult to do because you're probably quite lucky you can speak French. But when I moved to Sweden, I didn't speak much British at all, alone like, know, ingredients in bread, no France, any three things. So you probably fight with that. in the foods you're eating, I guess especially because I don't know if you're Koshu or not. I know a lot of people in Israel are, but some people aren't.

It makes it bit easier, suppose, because I know you might have to then go find the correct products in the supermarket and that could be another headache as well. Which your children, for instance, if they're young, they might have brands they like to eat and, you know, kids are not the easiest people to negotiate with, especially when comes to food. So was that a headache for you initially? How did you kind of get over those hurdles? Yeah, well, you know, even though I speak French and I knew

how to look for things. It's still the supermarket adventure is so different from country to country. And it plays differently. The products are really different. We eat a lot of fruits and vegetable and the taste is really different. So I'm lucky and in France there are really great products.

James Doran (21:00.59)

But still there are some types of vegetables that I still can't find. You know, it's in a specific market that I need to go and they eat very seasonal food. So I realized that if I want to eat a good tomato, it's only during summer. You can't find a good tomato during winter. I come from Israel. It's a hot country, warm country. There are tomatoes all year long.

There is, like you said, and for kids, was things that they were used to eating every day, every evening, for example, and everything changed. Or for example, now they eat lunch at school. In Israel, wasn't the case. In Israel, school finishes at noon. And here it's up until 4.30, so they eat lunch at school and they're not a sandals. They don't like the furthest.

Well, and we had a tough time with it at the beginning, because trying to adjust, it takes time. Could be, no, that's a very good point. And interesting how school times between countries change. then I guess if someone else is looking to move abroad, it's good to know you're going with a family to understand, will your day be affected by your children's routines and schedules too? Because if you're all used to working till five and get your kids after school, after work.

that might be a different story if you change country because of you know how every education system works. Going into the kind of language more a bit more then so when you moved second time did you get any lessons to try and learn the segments of language you didn't really feel confident with did you have language cafes or tutoring did you try and seek out opportunities the language did your husband

go and get lessons if he's not fluent in French because I guess his day to day life has to be in French as well. this time around as an adult, I started reading again books and magazine in French before I came to work on my vocabulary. My husband is like, I'm going to get to it later. And he started actually taking classes this year. So after two years we were here.

James Doran (23:26.968)

He was like, I'm going to speak in English. If they understand rate and it's not then, then you'll do the stuff. but now he's taking lessons and he's really approving. that's great. And I think, when he realized that our daughters are correcting his French and then he got us stressed about it and went to take some lessons. mean, yeah, it's probably the pride comes out. Yeah.

And it's really hard because even me that my French is pretty fluent. Sometimes I see homeworks of my older daughter, for example. And I'm like, okay, I don't know. I don't know this grammar rule and I have to go and look it up. Which gender is the word? Not the genders I know, but the French grammar with all the different times.

It's a nice mirror. And while I do know how to speak, I'm not always comfortable with the right grammar and in writing for example. Completely. Yeah. think I didn't realize Unicorn Pompow was written as it was. was like, no, that's not, that's not the one. They just knew the word. I learned the phrase when I did a French exchange because it was the most useful word. And just for you, Anglais is the other one.

Other than that, my friends was quite useless apart from away a little bit longer. It was also something I thought was quite useful. then obviously you've been living there for a few years. How, how has that experience been? How have you made friends? For instance, have you joined any local communities to help kind of grow a network? Cause going as a family as well, you've got a lot of time inside your own working as a team. You have to somehow have the, I guess the

the breathing space to be an adult and have friends. How have you managed that? Well, I have to say this is my weakest point, I think. I've never been good with making friends, not in Hebrew, in Israel, not in French. It was always the hardest part for me. And also, honestly, I don't feel the need for like...

James Doran (25:49.598)

right away making friends. wasn't my top priority when I arrived. But like at the end of the first year I tried, I said, okay, my kids are settled. Everything is great. They're playing at the park. There are other moms I can try to socialize, but it took me two and a half years to actually exchange some...

phone number with other moms and to, you know, get invited to someone's house for coffee. So it's really after two and a half years. So we fear was the breakout, big breakout. When I realized that I actually know a people, are texting me, I'm inviting others, I'm getting invited. It's really recent.

So two and a half years. Wow. I guess as you said, you've got your network in your family and that's the most important thing, I suppose. And luckily for you, you have a sibling living there, not far from you. And how long did you, after you moved, did your sister move over? Or was it the same time? So first of all, all my family's living here because my parents moved from Israel almost 30 years ago.

and they stayed here. When we as young adults kept doing the back and forth, they stayed here in France. So they're living here and I have another brother who has been living here since as well. And my sister came to France a year before me. So right during COVID and I came a year after her. So we're living in the same city right now, which is really nice.

A lot of my social life is my family, my husband and my daughters, also my family, my parents, my brother and my sister as well. So in terms of homesickness, you're you're not personally dealing with it too much if your family networks are closer to you, but are you missing anything from Israel? The weather perhaps? So I, I miss a lot of family time when I was living in Israel.

James Doran (28:15.072)

when my daughters were born and my parents weren't by my side and I needed my mother and she wasn't here. And it was really hard for me. But now when I have my family, so I do miss some of my friends back in Israel. I'm not missing the weather because I'm not fed with warm weather. I really like the rain. So I'm happy about the rainy summer in Paris. It's amazing.

Everybody whining about it, but I love it. Things that much better, right? It's refreshing. don't know. There are some things that I miss from living in Israel, but honestly, one of the reasons we left Israel is it became very intense and stressful to live there. And it wasn't healthy.

for us. So I'm not really thinking about whether I miss things there. A couple of people that I do miss, I have lot of cousins there and a lot of good friends and aunts and uncles. I miss the people specifically, but not living there. did you feel more friends than before? Do you feel like when you're in Israel, that was your time abroad as opposed to

being your friends? I think when I lived in Israel, I felt like I was too French for the Israeli. When I living here, I'm too Israeli for the French. I'm not Israeli and not French enough. I'm both. neither. It's like, don't know. I tried the past couple of years not to say I'm more Israeli or more French. I'm both.

are really both and I feel I am both. That's great and great you have but two homes is more than one more than most. don't know. right now those days I feel more at home in France because of the situation that are happening. But honestly I could feel at home.

James Doran (30:37.486)

in the UK or in Italy or in Spain. One of the things we learn when we move abroad so much, especially at a young age, is to adjust and to adapt yourself to the And I can go on vacation for two weeks and feel so at home. That's great. No, completely. And your husband, is his family back in Israel or is they also in France?

So all his family is back in Israel. He's traveling a lot to Israel because he's working. So every other month he is going. So he's seeing his family a lot and seeing his friends a lot and his colleagues as well. So it's helping him deal with homesickness as well then. Honestly, don't feel, I don't think he's feeling homesick. Again, it's a

really complex these days to feel homesick to this specific country. This is very personal. So I don't think he's feeling homesick, but he misses the specific people. being there a lot helps. How have your children coped with the movie? Obviously two and a half years later on, they?

they settled in and it was the best decision you ever made? I feel overall it's a very good decision we made. We gained so much valuable time together. So when we were living in Israel, we both worked a lot. My husband was never home. He missed a lot of amazing moments with his kids. And now we are

spending a lot of time together. He is taking them from school a lot. He is playing with them at home. We are traveling together. I feel this is something very valuable that we had to do for our family and for our kids to give them parenting time and for us to get, you know, our kid. And so for that,

James Doran (33:01.598)

Only for that it was already worth it. And then of course we get so many other things. My new business, I'm closer to my family. A lot of other opportunities we never had when we lived back in Israel. So definitely a great decision. I don't know if it's the best because I don't know what's next to come, but it was a great decision and I'm very happy about it.

Wonderful. That's great. Is there anything else which you've noted in terms of living water? talked about language, culture, homesickness and things. Anything else which kind of stands out as a big change for you since moving? Yeah, I think you've touched on the culture, which is really, really important and a big change, especially when you're moving as an adult because as kids, you're really adjusting yourself to what other kids are doing.

And France is very multicultural, so you can see a lot of different things, but as a adult. So when I lived in Israel, I was too French culturally, you know, being more private. In Israel, people are like getting into your privacy, touching, hugging. And I was always, you know, very reserved about it.

So I was the different one in Israel, even as a young adult, as a teenager as well, I was always the weird one. The French snob, the French snob. But here I'm like not French enough. So I still had to learn, for example, that if I want to invite...

one of the friends of my kids back home, you know, for an afternoon, a play date, a birthday party. I need to send an invitation, like a written invitation.

James Doran (35:09.806)

A couple of weeks ahead. And it was like where I come from as well, like four in the afternoon. Hey, do want to come over with your kids to play? Sure. And there is five minutes. That's, that is a cultural approach, but here it's so different. And it took me a lot of time to understand that this is the case and not that people don't want to see us. Like it's not against us. It's like, this is how we do things.

So that's just one example, but the cultural difference is very important to know that there are differences and try to adjust. And on the other hand, know what, you know, taking away all your culture because that's part of who you are. And yeah, so I think the best thing that works for me is finding the balance and

mixing traditions and mixing cultures and then showing others that this is how we do. You know, I talked to another mom and I said to her, hey, if you want something, just call me. You can call me. need... People are SMSing. If they don't want you, they don't even send you a WhatsApp. It's like SMS. Who uses SMS? You can call me. That's solely fine. It's okay then. And then she called me.

so, you FaceTime back, right? No. But again, it's like, putting yourself out there, bringing your own culture and then trying to mend the local. You find that the mold where you can fit. yeah. And then it gets my, my, last part this is your, your working life. And so obviously you've, you've left your business in Israel, come sort of new fresh, fresh thing.

First of all, do you want to tell people what it is? And then lastly, how have you managed to build that in France and how has it been working in France compared to what you've worked before? when I had to close my own business, graphic design business, I was already getting tired doing what I did. I loved it, but I was getting tired and I wanted something else and I was a lot into self-development and personal.

James Doran (37:38.126)

personal development and mindfulness and yoga, philosophy and all this kind of thing. And then when I ask myself, well, now I need to reinvent myself. What do I know best? And I realized that I know best to move abroad and to adjust to a new situation, to a new country and to approach it in a very positive way.

Because I've done it a lot and I've done it miserably because I haven't told you, but there's one move that was the least successful. I moved when I was 21 years old from Israel to France for one year and I was miserable. I tried working here. I tried integrating the French job market.

And I realized that I couldn't because I haven't done French studies. I didn't have a degree yet. I was so different and in a different place from everyone else my age. It was really hard. I couldn't adjust. Then I came back to Israel and did all of other things. But when I asked myself three years ago, what do I know best?

I realized that moving abroad is my strength and doing it positively and successfully is something that I can help others do. So together with my sister, Gal, we said, okay, so let's help others move abroad, but do it like successfully and with a smile and actually enjoy this move abroad because we started talking to other people living abroad and...

We realized so many people are just waiting for their time abroad to pass, feeling miserable, struggling so much over technical things like a visa or rent or job, where actually we believe that the mindset we have and our approach is crucial for our experience abroad. And this is how Smositive started. How we wanted to make people abroad.

James Doran (40:04.354)

smile and enjoy their life on Broadway. This was our big vision. That's incredible. I wish it was around when I moved because that's why I started this podcast because I didn't have any help. I guess similar to you, different medium, but I wanted to help people learn from other people's experiences. guess you're providing more practical way that they can go and interact themselves with the lessons that are on your app and all the amazing resources that you've

guess accrued over time and will continue to accrue. So yeah, it's a really great thing. I'm sure people listening, if you haven't already downloaded it, then do that because it will definitely help you. absolutely. You know, and we first started, we had to niche down and to choose one topic that is for us the most important. It was the mindset work and the emotional and mental aspect of life abroad. This is

our expertise, this is our biggest, you know, knowledge around. is a positive psychology coach and I have, I'm a mindfulness coach and together we'll bring this aspect of life abroad. And we started with women, helping them to prepare for this move. And then we realized people do need more than that. And it's only when

both the technical and logistical part of life abroad and the mental and emotional part. If they're both handled correctly and well adjusted, only then you can have a life you actually enjoy. Because you can have your visa sorted out, you can have a beautiful apartment, a great job, kids in school, a social security number, everything.

and still be really miserable. And you can have, you know, a great approach to life and be very positive. But if you're missing your visa, then you might get deported. And that's like you need both of them. This is why we created our app and maybe we'll talk about it later. Completely. Yeah, I think that's why I have questions wise for the kind of beingness section. So I guess we can go to section three.

James Doran (42:30.99)

So welcome back to the podcast from World Citizen 3 which is actually untitled but essentially to review your time. the first question I always ask my guests is if you could go back to when you first moved abroad and give yourself some advice, what might you say? Now I guess with you it's difficult because do you go back to when you were a child? Do you go back to when you were going back to Israel or back and forth? But I suggest we go from when you maybe moved as an adult

last time, what advice you might tell yourself there and then kind of work back because it's interesting to see how it's changed over time if it has changed. so do you want to with this move? I will? Yes, the one that's most in your head. So the I would say to myself, don't worry. Just keep on doing whatever you're doing. You're doing great. That's because I was

really hesitant at the beginning. Everything was new. It was a new business, a new country, a new school, a new city. Everything, the language was new, but everything else was new. And I was really questioning myself a lot. Was it the right move? Is it good for the family? Is it good for the kid? And I had this voice that always told me like...

you're doing it for a reason. I had this really strong why I knew what my why is and I just kept going. But I would say just keep going. Maybe make this voice louder. And then going to that move when you were 21. might you tell yourself there? Because you said that was quite a tough time you had and you know, that's probably the

The one which people are fearing if they go to move abroad of how to avoid that experience. That was the hardest one. I wouldn't say it was, well, you tried. it's okay to understand that it wasn't the right fit at the moment, but it doesn't mean like a lost thing. I learned a lot.

James Doran (44:48.522)

And I tried and I failed, but I learned a lot. Yeah. And you should embrace failure as well as we don't often do that enough, but it's how you grow. So I then I guess there's anything as a child where you weren't growing up, was that like? What did you prepare yourself? Do you wish you prepared more than some language lessons before you moved or? No, you know what I would say to my younger self?

If I could, I was like, look around you and take it all in because one day this is going to be your career and this is your gift to the world after it. So just look around, take it all in and one day this will help others as well. That's great. No, that's great things. I'm sure there's parents who listen to podcast, you might be moving with children and might be in a such just urine and

good to know what you might have told yourself as someone who's moved as a child, a student, aged, and as an adult. You've done all three. When you get older, you may move to retire and it'll be a different story again. Might also be back to France because that's often what people move to for retirement as well. So it's quite a good place to be. Going on to the advice for the people other than downloading your app.

What might you tell people to do as if someone was leaving Israel, for instance, I know right now it's quite a difficult time, but either moving away, maybe when you left the last time, what have you told them? I think the best advice I could give to someone who's moving abroad is be open minded. Come really open to everything. You think, you know, but honestly,

You know, nothing and, that's the beauty of it. When you come like with an open mind and you allow yourself to ask questions, make mistakes, meet new people, try new things. This is how your experience abroad becomes an adventure. And this is how you learn. Okay. We're learning every day, all the time from different experiences. But if we don't have open-minded.

James Doran (47:09.64)

And we think that this is how things should be. And we miss out on so many things and so many opportunities. So my best advice would be to just keep an open mind. That's great. I completely agree with that. It helps a lot, especially because what you anticipate will happen will

maybe half it would happen or 10 % it would happen the way you expect it to and goes to all life right it's not just moving abroad but it's probably amplified more because you've not got those safety networks or kind of comforts around you as easily so yeah and that's very good open-mindedness is definitely a strength to develop if you haven't already got it is there anything in the future for you in terms of would you move again?

Do you have any plans to move or is France your forever home, so to speak? I will never say this is my final destination because I know that I know my spell and I know that I have this bug and after a couple of years I would try, start and feel this need to move again. So I don't know where I, but I am open-minded and I really don't know.

But I will never say this is my final destination. This is where I am because you can never know. You never know what kind of opportunities you'll have. Completely. I guess now, I guess we've already talked about your app and your business, but I don't know if you want to take the time now just to explain a bit more about what it is that people might find if they download your app and how it will help them. So, Sila, this is our app. It's an acronym for Simplify Your Life Abroad.

We wanted to really bring our users, the app users, the information they need for their life abroad, whether they're moving abroad or already living abroad in a very simplified way. So it's all video content from different aspects of life abroad. So both the logistic, technical and emotional and mental from different experts of life abroad. So it's not just us.

James Doran (49:24.75)

giving the information, we partnered with so many other dozens of experts of life abroad. We interviewed hundreds of them until we found those who can think about a topic, but make it interesting and simple and nice and with a smile on their face and with the information like they would give to a friend. we really move with human touch, human connection.

Today, you know, with Google, chatGPT, you can ask things and get the information in a very shallow way, but you can get it. You can start your journey abroad this way. But moving abroad is so overwhelming and there's so many things you need to take care of that we wanted to bring it all to one place to pick up ourselves those acts that really give valuable information and not just

blah, blah, and then take you 300 euros for an hour. It's like we wanted to bring those people who people are moving abroad and how can life abroad be better and more positive and easier? Because we know it can be really hard. We know that

moving abroad with a family or alone, looking for job, looking for an apartment, looking for a visa, learning a new language, realizing how you need to pay your taxes, where to grocery shopping, how to make friends. All of this is a lot and it brings up a lot of stress as well, which keeps people up at night and is lot for us. So we included all the topics and also, you know,

example, mindfulness that can help you and hypnosis and how to navigate stress. And it's the combination of the two five that will bring life abroad that people can enjoy living. That's amazing. And yeah, I just really jealous I didn't get to have that when I moved because I still had the mindfulness. I didn't use balance for a long time, especially during COVID because mental health was probably at a negative point during COVID for a lot of people. And to me it was

James Doran (51:45.294)

quite difficult. was going through burnout and things and meditation and mindfuck really helped me in exercising, just going for long walks and runs. I did use those methods when I moved abroad, but it wasn't the easiest thing to do. It's a kind of the honeymoon period wears off and you're having to find a place to, to, you know, buy certain things or do your laundry as I said before, or just, you know, finding people to hang out with because

Unlike you, didn't move with my family on my doorstep the last time anyway. I when you were younger, you didn't move by yourself, but I moved by myself and my girlfriend was still living in the UK. So I had to deal with a long distance relationship, which was very difficult because you have to make a choice between going out and making new friends or working a relationship you already have back home. So it's a balancing act. And we did a lot of yoga with Adrienne via our iPads. It was how we did it. Especially in the winter when it's,

four hours of daylight, we would call each other and do a yoga session. So if I had you out, would have been a bit easier to get to that kind of solution. So I will thoroughly encourage people to go and check it out and understand. Yeah, that's amazing. And I love Yoga with Adrienne. It's really recommended for everyone living abroad, but for everyone. And I think we all have different...

challenges like you said long distance relationship with the one of them making social life Moving with the family's other challenges, but there are so many things we can take care of To help us deal with those challenges that are the same for everyone and our mental health is one of them Using mindfulness learning how to navigate this stress and not burn out after two months abroad We hear so many

families breaking down, you know, after six months abroad because they don't know how to communicate. They don't know how to speak to each other about their challenges and they don't realize that they're having the same challenges. And so we have a lot of those topics as well, which in our belief are really, really important and shouldn't be neglected. So the FISA is important. is. Check the box, but then go and deal as well with

James Doran (54:09.814)

all the rest because your mental wellbeing and the way you feel about this move abroad is super important and will in fact directly how you experience your life. Massively so and yeah thank you for A, your passion on the subject of living abroad and you know delivering it to this kind of podcast with me and sharing it with me and thank you I really appreciate that.

and thank you for your time as well, you know, it's your evening in people friends right now, which is probably sunny like it is in the UK, which hasn't been very popular recently. Mr. Level evening and all you chose to spend it talking about your passion, which is wonderful to hear. And yeah, thank you. And hopefully if you have enjoyed the podcast and you have found an insightful bit of information, please get in touch. There's no make sure you follow it and subscribe to it and share it with your friends, but also

you know, check the app out because it will hopefully will definitely offer you some advice and improve your experience abroad because you know, it's never going to be perfect. There will always be some questions you'll always have which you know, you could spend 10 hours scouring Facebook xplat groups for when you might find it in five minutes with this app. yeah, hopefully we'll see you next time for the xplat pod.