E063 - Cultural Insights from an Expat Entrepreneur

James Doran (00:06.222)

So hello and welcome to the Expert Pod. My name is James, your host, and today I'm joined by Vanessa. Vanessa, I'm to give you a bit of a short background of where you're from, where you've lived and what you do. Okay, hi, I'm Vanessa. I grew up in Nottingham in England and I currently don't have a home. I currently just travel around consistently, but prior to this I was living in France for 10 years as an expert.

And I have a wedding company that specialises in destination weddings in Europe. So for that, I spend a lot of time in France, Italy, Greece and Portugal. Perfect. I'm sure we'll unpack a lot of your travels in the Made by the Podcast.

James Doran (00:55.47)

Welcome to section one of the podcast on what getting there. Vanessa, this is essentially the why and how of all the things you had to do before making the move. Let's roll back to before you left home or before you left the UK. Why did you want to leave? Why did you want to explore being an expat? What was the muse for that travel? I guess for me, I left the UK when I was 18. I've been

officially an expat now for 15 years. And I've never kind of moved back to the UK. I did the whole gap-yard thing between uni and college and went travelling to South East Asia and did that kind of loop. It blows my mind now thinking that my parents let me and another small blonde 18 year old with no mobile phones and no method go travelling in South East Asia.

but that kind of got me into it and really kind of threw me in the deep end as to kind of the culture shock and everything. And then whilst I was still traveling, I went to Greece on a girls holiday, got offered a job in a bar and called my mother and told her that I didn't want to go to university anymore. And I was going to live in Greece for the rest of my life, working behind a Which, you know, she was very much, if you're happy, we're happy, which is great.

but I'm sure there were some some conversations about about that being one behind my Yeah, that's kind of paused Living abroad which are the most ex-ante calls. No, it was creaked. I was in Malia. I was in Malia girl I remember one night I was in sixth form when everyone was going on our holidays. I did that to never went on one at the end I I avoided that because I remember watching like, some sex and suspicious parents was on tv when I was leaving school and I was like

I really fancy that life, like, ignore having that. Yeah, I imagine that's probably what you had to live through whilst you were working in... Yeah, was very different experience and fun for an 18 year old. It taught me a lot of very interesting things. Malachis, I'm sure, was probably one of the main things you'd have. Great. So then, from Greece, I guess, how long were you there for?

James Doran (03:20.174)

so I lived in Greece for five years in the end, which was great working mostly summer seasons. and then they have a good system in Greece where they're aware that on the islands, you kind of only work in the summer. So they're quite good with kind of looking after you in the winters. So that was delightful. Lots of swimming in the sea and just very relaxed, kind of, kind of like what you see in like ABBA, you know, in like the movie. I was going to say, it's your one mere experience. One mere experience.

Not quite that classy, but you know, almost. It sounds great. Were you staying on the same island the entire time or were you island hopping, so to speak? No, stayed on the same island. I met a guy there who his family owned a bar on the island. So, easy to integrate in that instance because they already had kind of an expert group there. was quite a nice gentle kind of introduction into kind of being an expert and what it's like.

great. then going, well sure we'll get into that a bit later, but going forward again then, so from Greece, where was your next move? So from Greece, we went to live in Amsterdam for a winter, which didn't work out so well for me. The language barrier was really tough there. There's quite a few places in Europe that I've lived and Amsterdam was probably the hardest to work in hospitality without speaking the language. Yeah, a lot of the bars and things I was

talking to, they needed me to speak Dutch, which I didn't at the time. I still don't. I don't know why I said at the time. So I found it quite difficult in Amsterdam and obviously the cost of living was a lot higher compared to when we were in Greece. So any money that we did have from Greece didn't really translate very well over into kind of getting set in Amsterdam. So we went back to Greece for a summer and then the following year, we moved to France for a winter season to do a ski season.

in the shy, which was fantastic and I'd recommend to everyone and anyone. It was just a complete experience. Great. And which was that in the same place you living before? the Alpine town. Yeah. So that was in the French Alps and a place called Morzine. And I ended up staying there for 10 years in total and really kind of building a base there and a home there. And what drew you to the Alps? Did you ski as a child or?

James Doran (05:45.482)

No, absolutely nothing. I never skied before. well, I'd been on a school ski trip once, but like I had been on ski valley holidays and we were in Greece and we just needed a way to earn money in the winter. So I was just looking online and found a job board and applied with other jobs in random places. I'd never heard of Morzine before. And really cool company. He looked like really high end who I thought had

I these wrong, often as a job. I hadn't Googled it and I was like, this place looks cool. And so we just moved there and it was, it's one of most beautiful places in Europe, reckon. Brilliant. then what made you then now kind of pack up and have a kind of European nomad lifestyle? so five years ago, I started a wedding, destination wedding company called Mountain Weddings in the mountains.

And it was, it's been really good. It started just as COVID hit. So we've had our tough times. But in that first couple of years, like we were featured in British Vogue three times. We've been like featured on BBC. Like we've had loads of really good press and like we've done really, really well. We've expanded to like six different countries. But for me, the small ski town life just...

stopped serving its purpose for me. I needed to be in situations where I was being pushed more and more entrepreneurial and more kind of being a small fish in a room, you know, and just kind of going into places and wanting to learn from people, whereas in a ski resort to be that person, you have to be really into skiing or like it's very kind of

be a small fish. I was a small fish in a room full of expert skiers, but I didn't want to be an expert skier, you know? So it was just, I feel like I'd done my time there and it offered me so much, but it was no longer offering me what I needed. So I decided, I originally then moved down like an hour down the mountain to a place called Annecy. Yeah, being there, it's beautiful. Yes, so beautiful.

James Doran (08:07.806)

year and there was a great kind of expat community. was women business networking groups and that was all wonderful. But I just travel so much now for business that I was just paying all this money on an apartment and I was never there. So I decided to get the apartment and now I just go from Airbnb to Airbnb, mostly around Europe, expanding my business. Incredible. And where are you right now then Al? Right now I'm back in Greece where it all began.

Same island, same place? Same island, not the same place. But same island. And I'm here for four days and then I go to Ireland for three days and then I go to France for ten days. So yeah, it's a lot of moving at the moment, but it's also our summer season. So it's also our busiest time. And then I guess in terms of visas and things, because the UK was, hadn't done Brexit when you left, you didn't have any issues with finding work permits or?

Anything else? I, the saddest thing is to out of Brexit. But, yeah, so I left the U.S. already living in France and paying taxes in France when all that came in. So I got French residency quite easily. So now I'm a French resident, which means I can travel around, which is great. Right. And did you need to do any language tests or that? Or is it just live there, pay tax? Not for residency, citizenship.

It's a language test and it's a language test about like French history and things which I don't think I could do for the UK in English. So I don't know how I could do it in France. I mean my friend did his, he's so African, he did his British citizenship and he's asked me all his questions about things I don't know. I was like, I didn't pay attention in history only. Maths and physics is all I already cared about. What is history? Now I'm a bit more, a bit better but still he was asking me his questions. was like

No, like, I'd like to know more. Please give me your book when you're finished with it. But yeah, we didn't have to learn. We probably did learn in school. We didn't have to learn it to pass. No, I felt really awkward because I was like, I'm really bad at being British. But then most of my friends also wouldn't point out the answers to those questions. No, like, the casetings 1066 all that, you know, but doing that.

James Doran (10:34.286)

Is there anything else you needed to do before you moved in terms of like the expanding job, job boards and other things? What kind of websites did you use for the job boards? So I think we used, I think it was, I don't know if it's still going, something called natives for, and that's kind of ski resorts and things. It's definitely getting easier now, I found talking to kind of my friends who still live in Morse and hire people from the UK to kind of.

People are kind of understanding how to navigate getting sponsorships and working visas and things like that, which is lovely. That's so good to hear. For me, I'm a bit of a, I'm quite impulsive. So I don't really think through any of my moves or plan. I'm more, I'll get here and I'll figure it out. Which has always worked out for me. You know, and I'd say like I've lived in probably nearly 20 countries now.

only five where I've kind of got a bank account and really kind of set up but like for more than a month, 20, 30 countries and you know, those kinds of tricks and things that you can learn. But I think sometimes the hardest thing is just doing it and just, like I remember when I first left home to go, to go back to see this boy who I'd met in Greece and I packed four bags of things and I remember being in Manchester airport going through security, crying my eyes out thinking,

What am I doing? This is ridiculous. It was the thing I ever did, you know, and it's just get on the plane and just do it. Yes, completely. You can always come home, right? Yeah, right. It's only a plane ride away. What's the worst? Well, bad things that can happen, but you know, it's only a plane. Yeah. Wonderful. Is there anything else you want to say before you kind of move to abroad or shall we get into the more, I guess, the main bulk of the podcast, I suppose?

Not really, I think once everything about before. Perfect. We'll see you section two.

James Doran (12:43.246)

So welcome back to progress woman session two or what being there so Vanessa this is essentially I guess Recalling your time in all these amazing places you've lived if we have enough time to do it Obviously you say you've lived in a lot of places, but shall we go to Greece first? What was it like? I was he went on a girls whole day. So you probably went and just listened to a lot of loud EDM or

I guess what? Alcopops. And lots of drinks. balls. Once you kind of moved to Pervinay, got this job, what was it like? What was your experience of that? Was it what you expected to be? Was it the honeymoon period kind of was the one first of all and how long did it last? So for me, I do think I was really lucky when I first moved to Greece because I automatically fell quite quickly into an expat group.

I think working in hospitality really helps. think, you know, kind of working in bars, you do automatically kind of find people very quickly to socialise with. And so it was great. It was very easy for me in that scenario. You know, there's, especially kind of on the Greek islands and things, most people speak English predominantly.

Even the Greeks in the towns and things will just speak to you in English first. And so it wasn't that kind of scary language barrier or, you know, if something went wrong, you can speak English. The one thing that I would say was kind of really then kind of showed that there was a barrier was, so my brother came out and lived with me for a few years and me and my

were really, really close, like best friends. He is three years older, but everyone thinks he's younger. And he went missing one day and everyone was like, Vanessa, like stop being silly. you know, and I was like, no, can feel it. Like something is wrong. Like I know something is wrong. No one would believe me. And like two or I think it was three days went past and I got myself so worked up and we were called at least we were called on the hospitals and I mean, could like, I mean, no.

James Doran (15:09.696)

anyone or anything. And then he messaged me on day three and was like, don't panic, I'm in the hospital, can you bring my passport? I need you to come and help me. And he had, he'd crashed his motorbike three days prior. There'd been, like the police had been there, everyone had been there and they'd like told me there were no accidents.

And then like getting to the hospital and he'd been left kind of in a corridor. He wasn't checked into the hospital properly. He'd shattered his hip so he couldn't walk and got a catheter or anything. So he was just winging into water bottles. Like there was definitely kind of, that was the first time that I saw that there is a division, you know, there is a, and I'm sure it's not like that all the time or everywhere or, you know, this was 10 years ago now. So maybe it's got better.

But there was definitely that kind of like that wouldn't happen in the UK, right? You wouldn't, English person in the UK, that wouldn't happen. So I'd say 95 % of my Greek experience was incredible and it was very easy to integrate and become part of the community. And that was the only real thing that I really struggled with and got quite frustrated with was kind of the emergency, like what happens in an emergency side.

How long into that your stay was that? Quite late or I think that was two years. I think I've been at two years when that happened. Okay. Wow. So you would how was your Greek at that point? Was it pretty good? Was it average? Non-existent? I mean, I knew enough to Be polite And also sometimes trick people into thinking that I knew more I mean, that's quite a good skill

I had a Greek housemate in uni and I could not understand a word. She was trying to speak Greek and I was like, I'm sorry, no, I just know bad words. Just as well. And then she was like, well, you're basically Greek. was like, okay. In healthcare, how was the day to day life? What was it like in terms of, you have joined the expat community, was that predominantly British people? Was it people from all over Europe? it any local Greeks in that group?

James Doran (17:32.792)

Predominantly British. I'd say that I was quite naive when I was that young and didn't particularly reach out to the locals and the Greeks. And, you know, I'd really advise that now and now I'm older and wiser. But definitely at that point in my life, I was like very happy with my little bubble of English people and Welsh people.

And yeah, I think I wouldn't advise that now. I think that was a bad move. And I mean, it showed, right? It showed when I needed someone to help me with the whole and everything like that, you know, we didn't get very far because we're the stupid English people who can't speak their language. And yeah, and you know, I didn't see real Greece. I was there, I was in Greece for five years and

I come back now and I see 10 times more real Greece than I ever did when I was living here. Well, it's the arrogance of youth, exists. Especially when you're young and you're a student age, you tend to just want to find the bars and clubs and events going on. But I went around Budapest, didn't really see Budapest because we were too busy going out. It was beautiful what I saw and the day after was great.

you going to ruin bars was more important to me when I was 21 than, you know, going to culture spots. I think it's not as important. Yeah, it's always the case. And so then you moved from Greece to the mountains. Obviously you did a bit in the Netherlands, but I guess not unless to really have an opinion or you said the language was really difficult. I guess Amsterdam is renowned for many things.

horse-drawn industry is quite good especially for a lot of tourism so I guess for you is a great place to have chosen to go. Did you get any work though or was it just trying to find work? The only work I got in the end was I became a party crawl rep which was great. I had a lovely time for a couple of weeks and then I think it was St. Paddy's Day.

James Doran (19:53.718)

And obviously part of my job was to kind of go out and have fun with everyone and encourage them to drink. And I came home quite drunk and my boyfriend was like, I don't think you should do this job anymore. And I was like, that's fair. That's absolutely fair. So no, the Amstam was quite, I think we were only there in the end for five months. I also lived in Malta for four or five months, which again was...

quite a similar experience, not in the way of language, more in the way of just, I struggled a lot in Malta with working in the bars and...

The way that I got treated wasn't quite to the level that I would have liked it to have been. I tried like three or four different bars and restaurants. And by this point, I'd been running cocktail bars all over Europe. had good knowledge, good experience, but I was then getting paid, I think it was like one euro 20 an hour in Malta, something ridiculous.

and not allowed to have an opinion and to unbutton my shirt, you know, that kind of, so I didn't quite get on with Malta. So then yes, moved to France and France was incredible for me. Like as a person, France really was the place that I grew. Great. And, what was your first impression of France and saying you didn't know much about the place or much about the town you were going to move to? What were you expecting and what was the reality when you, when you arrived?

Be honest, before I went to France, I always thought I'd never live in France. It's a bit too close to the UK, know, like a hop over. And I always thought I'm going to move. I'm going to move somewhere really cool and really far away. like, know, France was just, we learnt French in school and we went there and ate snails once. So, you know, it was kind of by chance that I got the job in France. It was going to be a winter season.

James Doran (22:07.638)

And when I just loved the lifestyle, like Marzina is such a fabulous little town. It's so, I think because I'd come from Greece where it's very heavy on club, drinking all night, sleeping all day, cause it's too hot to then go to a lifestyle where you're outside all day in the mountains. It's just such a change and it's incredible and it's beautiful and it's just, yeah, all great.

Amazing and then how did you find that in terms of making friends with people? Did you find it with their expats as well or was it mixture of both locals and expats? What was it like in France? Yes, the towns are full of expats. Like all of them in the French Alps have got really big expat communities which you can simply like even before you go they've all got really good Facebook groups that are full.

of English speaking people offering jobs and accommodation. It's a very easy way to get into the out. There's definitely a nice community of people. think because it's a very active lifestyle, it encourages a lot more groups and socials.

It's a really good expat community over there. And because of that also there's a lot of help. So when you're moving to a new place and you don't know the language and you don't know how to get on the healthcare or, I mean, French paperwork isn't easy. It's, I mean, it's not easy anyone, guess, but enough expats there who make money from just putting these applications through and telling you what you need to do, what you need to translate. And, know, it's never too much money.

it's more time and just kind of waiting for things and just making sure it's done right because it just otherwise will drag out for years. But yeah, it was a easy, easy move. And how did you find the social side? said you do use more groups and things with that. Were you getting a ski pass for a day with people in skiing? Were you doing other things like language cafes or what was the kind of major activities you might have done there?

James Doran (24:25.12)

Yeah, so we, the job that we had, luckily also there was another kind of 20 people of a similar age, expats. So that we automatically had a really good kind of group of people around us who spoke our language and things like that. And then there was a language swap at one of the local breweries.

I'm every Thursday. So we used to go to that. and just kind of, and then made friends there. And then, you know, I think as there's, there's two, I always find those two types of expats in a town. There's the type that have been there forever and they know that people come and go. And so they're always a little fandoffish, you know, like you're probably only here for six months. It's not really any point in me putting any time in with you because I've been here for 14 years and I know you're probably just going to leave. And so I'm just going to stick to my friends. So I know I'm going to have babies.

And then there's the ones that are really excited to meet everyone, you know? and you know, majoritally, I always think there's probably like a 20, 80 % split with 80 % being the really lovely, like, if you're there as an expert, you're there to meet people. You've left home and you want new experiences and you want to have new friends and you want to grow your mind. And therefore I find that, you you go to like one language group on a Thursday night.

and you'll meet five people, but then you'll talk to them about something you're passionate about. And they'll be like, my friend Joe also has a charity in India. You should speak to them. And then we kind of, and it just kind of very easily snowballed. so yeah, I think, I think the expat community in most places is always, is always quite friendly and really delightful. Did you spend much time in trying to learn French when you were there? Did you get tutoring lessons or teach yourself on Duolingo? Was there any way you explored?

while Duolingo and that Duolingo street. Am I still going? It's like 700 days now. can't. I know. I'm scared to get rid of you though. was like, just got to do a quick like 10 voices. That's what I, to be honest, I was very lazy with my French language. We definitely did some private lessons. We did some language exchanges. I'd say that my French is very kind of tailored around the jobs that I've had.

James Doran (26:48.27)

You know, like when I first moved, I was working in chalets and I started to run a cocktail bar. Like I can speak to you about espresso martinis in French very, very well. And politics in French, not so much, you know, and now I can speak to you about weddings in French, but ask me about space engineering. did. I mean, ask me about that in English, I still wouldn't know. I'm an engineer, right?

Yeah, that's very interesting. It's a point because like when I was in Sweden, can't speak Swedish, but I could ask for a table and I can get food. I know words for very basic things, but I couldn't have a conversation with someone about stuff. It's just like I can order food. I can get a taxi. I can go and call the police. Nothing else. No, don't need to do it. Yeah, just wrong. Yeah, I like really

We had a wedding last week in France and I went and I tried to go to some of the weddings and there's one that I went to and at two o'clock in the morning one of the bridesmaids was trying to do a really cool dance move, fell, hit her head, gashed her head open and as the only sober person at the wedding I had to drive her down the mountain to the local A &E and you know get there and I can't translate

like the A &E staff only speak French and I'm really struggling because I've never had to say before, like I've never had to understand before like these questions that they're asking me like, you know, and you know, there's certain words and stuff that you can kind of translate a little bit, but I'm like, I promise I can speak better French than this. It's just, this is really out of my comfort zone. I really have no idea what all these medical terms are at all. so yeah.

Pointing at it, you know, look at it. It's yeah, she's obviously impending some way Wow, that's funny. And then obviously you started your company when you were living in France. So how did that kind of manifest itself? Were you? Inspired by weddings before what kind of made you go into that industry? There's a really cool venue on the lake. There's a lake in Morzine And there's a really cool venue. That's community hall, but it's like overlooking like picturesque lake you've ever seen

James Doran (29:11.054)

It's got like these shit cliffs, it's got waterfalls, and then it's like this big glass building that overlooks everything. And so in the winter, it's like perfect winter wonderland. In the summer, it's like this gorgeous Alpine Lake. And it's a community hall and it costs like a few grand to hire, like something that should cost 20, 30 grand to hire. And I used to walk around that lake all the time and I was like, people should do weddings there.

And people were starting to do weddings then, other than French companies, but no one really pushing it to the UK market. And so I just went for it and then I was really good at it. So then it just kind of quickly expanded and snowballed and now here we are. Was it hard to set up a business in France? there anything yet, anything to do in terms of legal things for registering a business? that easy? Did you have help? Did you use like a solicitor or something? Incredibly difficult.

We, as a business, I never wanted us to do weddings in the UK, just because for me then it wasn't a destination wedding and, you know, I wanted to do it in all these exotic places. Recently we started doing weddings in the UK and I'm like, my goodness, being able to speak to a supplier in English as their first language, being able to read a contract in English, I'm like, makes my life so much easier. I had to pay a lot of people to help me and that leaves a lot

in order to make sure that they know what they're I think the biggest thing for me was, so we've actually now just swapped the company to a UK company because all we were, I have an accountant and I have no idea what they're charging me for. Like, you know, they're just making all these numbers that come out of their ears and they're saying to me, you know, you need to do this meeting and you haven't done this.

I don't speak the language well enough to be able to, I don't, I don't know business well enough in the UK to like, I'd need to sit down with an accountant and be like, okay, can you explain this to me? Do I need to do it every year? Like what, what is it? What's it for? and I don't have that relationship with my friends for accounting. And then all of a sudden I've got another three grand bill for something. And I'm like, you could literally be asking me for this. And I've got no idea whether or not you're, you know,

James Doran (31:28.462)

It's funny actually because we, you know, spend a couple of grand a month on our accountancy fees in France and when I first moved to the UK the accountant looked at my books and he was like, okay so it's gonna be about a couple of grand and I was like, right okay and he looked at me and was like but if you want we can like spread that over the year and I was like wait sorry you mean a couple of grand a year and he was like yeah about a couple of grand a year so like you know I've automatically saved 20 grand just moving this to the UK.

I mean, taxes and things in France are notoriously high. It's a bad place to have employees and things. It's very much about the employee, not the employer, which also is great in respects. If you're employee, it's great if you're an employer. When I was an employee in France, it was the best thing ever. But yeah, I really struggled and I still struggle with...

And so closing down the business at the moment, again, there's all these things that just, it's really difficult and it's not so much online. It's really, I haven't found any kind of good resources online that help English people necessarily who are living in France with their businesses and explaining it in a way that's easier to understand. There's some like government sites, but they talk in jargon that, you know, I'm not, I'm good at business, but I'm not intelligent in that way.

You know, so it's, it has been very difficult and the relief of now having the company set up in the UK has just been, I didn't realize quite how stressed it was making me. So yeah, I wouldn't, I definitely say if you're going to do it, have the money to invest or a business partner who knows the French laws and the French systems. And because it's not that straightforward. So there's a niche market you found yourself as well as helping foreign countries in the companies in France. There could be a niche.

for someone.

James Doran (33:24.59)

Incredible. So will that affect your right to stay in France? Or do you have to be at a visa now if you're moving your business from there? So I've got a 10-year residency card at the moment. As long as I stay in France for 90 days, then I shouldn't lose it. But when it comes up for renewal, I think I'll probably lose it because by then I probably won't be paying taxes anymore in France.

And so I've got till 23rd to make all my money and then not need visas anymore because I'll be so rich. But I can qualify for an EMA visa or like, because I guess if your money's coming from abroad, but you're living there, then as long as you're spending money in that country, they can already give you a visa. think that does exist from people I've spoken to, like if you do want to stay there, you might not want to, might want to move back to Greece or, you know, France, Spain, Italy.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think once you've got a lot of money in the bank and you can prove it and you're not going to go kind of go on their dole and things like that. I think it's a lot easier to kind of move in these countries. Yes, always. Money helps. Is there anything else you've kind of needed whilst you've been living abroad? you dealt with homesickness in any way? I might listen to this, so I should say yes. I...

I've been very lucky. parents kind of, when I go to places, they just follow me. So, you know, they just kind of turn up and they learned to ski when they were 60. And, you know, my dad now skis and snowboards. My mum's a very good skier and that's been a really lovely experience to have that has come out of me moving away. It's just kind of, now we have these really good, cool memories that I never would have had before.

You know, when you live close to your parents and your family, feel like when they roast, we might pop around one night, but you don't really talk or do anything or experience anything. And now it's very intentional time that I have from my family. Like they come and see me we have these great experiences and they're like, we're going to South Africa this year for like four weeks. Cause I went last year for a couple of months and I was like, you've got to come with me next year. We're going to go see the whales and we're going to go to the sparrows and we're going to wine. And you know, I think for me, I don't really

James Doran (35:51.852)

And also, I guess I've been away for so long now that I don't consider it as home anymore. My parents have left the family home. So I don't think I get homesick as such. I think what I've really had to learn, especially since I've not got a home anymore anywhere, is remembering time to rest.

When your life cycle constant holiday, cause you're consistently moving to all these places for work. It's kind of, you don't just get a week of kind of nothing, you know, like a nine to five where you just sit on the sofa for a week and you don't have any plans and you're not trained and you don't get that. So kind of intentionally putting that time in me kind of, it's really important to kind of keep my mental health in a good place. have you found that now with your, your kind of nomad lifestyle? If you're moving around after a short period of time, you know,

It's hard to establish friendships, hard to establish routines or activities you might do that you can't go to the same year-end studio every week or you can't go for a running club or whatever, or a skiing club. How have you found that in terms of mental health? if you're constantly moving around and you're not being grounded in that sense by location, have you found other methods to do it? So I maybe kind of up until about six months ago, I was getting very lonely.

I do the cycle by myself and I kind of, I remember being in Sri Lanka in February this year. I got really, really sick and ended up hospitalized. And I just kind of, came out of that experience and I was like, why was I in Sri Lanka? I'm in Sri Lanka because I've always wanted to go there, but going as a single female by myself.

You know, I wasn't going out in the evenings because it's too dangerous in the places that I was in to be going out by myself in the evenings. I'm just sat in an Airbnb by myself. you know, I kind of also when I went to and then before Christmas that year I was in South Africa and it was the same. Like I didn't feel safe going out in the evenings and, you know, kind of.

James Doran (38:05.822)

can get very lonely especially when you're just kind of in an Airbnb and yeah I work remotely I work really well actually in the evenings so I do a lot of my work in the evenings but I think kind of just I then did a shift kind of after the Sri Lanka hospital experience and I was like it just rather than kind of being like I've never been to Ecuador before I'm just gonna go there for six weeks because I can I'm now more kind of like you know I've planned

I'm going to kind of, I've come to Greece because I've got loads of friends here, I was here before. know, I'm going to Ireland because I've got friends there who are christening and then I'm going to France and I've got a really good community there still. They're just kind of being a lot more intentional with why I'm going to places and then making sure that kind of I have a community there already or if I don't, I've actually just joined a really cool networking club.

that is for women that is all around the world. So just eat and kind of like, okay, cool. I want to go to New York. Let's plan a date around when they've got a networking event on at the beginning of that week. And then I'll make friends there. And then I've got people that I can speak to that week. And just, yeah, just being a bit more intentional and not just kind of, that sounds like fun. Let's go there by myself, you know.

Have you used apps like Meetup before? Because I used to go out lot when I was living in Sweden and it was really good. And you can plan like a lot of, well, in Gothenburg there was a expat drink or socialised group and every Tuesday they would go to a bar and just hang out. It was great fun and you meet a lot of people in the same situations you are. Yeah, Meetup is great and they have like a of the comedy nights and stuff. I think it can be quite daunting for someone who doesn't kind of network or whatever.

But I think it's just important to remember that everyone who's gone there has gone there to make new friends. And just kind of, you know, like everyone's not already there in any group and doesn't want anyone else to join and just kind of like, you know, like it's not a schoolyard kind of, neither our friends now and you're the outsider, you know, it's very- the cool kids. Yeah. I think sometimes it's quite easy to talk yourself out of going to those things and kind of not putting yourself out there. But I think it's just so important to remember.

James Doran (40:27.284)

that everyone is there to meet more people and they're all like-minded people like yourselves and you know if it's not if you can always leave you know I always say going for 10 minutes and if it's really horrible that people are really mean just go home. never gone home. Well not until much later I guess. Why? Not that Well you're still travelling now so you're going home I suppose. It's the home to go to.

Is there anything else you want to kind of add about your life in all these incredible places or if we kind of scrape the barrel first please? I'll scrape the barrel there. Perfect. Well, we can go into section three.

James Doran (41:11.086)

So welcome back to the podcast, welcome section three, all about, can I review your time, Vanessa? So this is essentially, let's go back to the beginning and if you could, I guess, ask or tell yourself something from when you first moved, a bit of advice, does this mean to change or do differently, just more like, what might you try and do more of or anything like that? Is there anything that comes to mind when you kind of think, what might you and me have liked to have known?

That's really difficult. I think like I'm super happy with everything that I've done and how it's worked out. And you know, like I know that, you know, when I first came out here to Greece, shouldn't have quite drank as much and partied as much and all that, but you know, I needed to do it and it was a point in my life. And you know, now I'm in Greece and I'm in bed by 10 and I'm up at six to go for a nice walk. And I see all these people walking home at 6 a.m. and they're like,

You know, so it's always a time and a place. I think in regards to, I think my big thing that I would love to tell myself when I was younger is just trust in yourself and trust your gut. Like everything's gonna work out, everything's gonna be great. It's gonna be better than you can even imagine, but just trust your gut and just, you know, I've got a good gut.

the bad situations I've got myself into, knew I should have listened to it. But then also I think that's part and parcel, right? If I choose a lifestyle where I'm consistently travelling around the world and putting myself in these situations, things will happen that are fabulous all the time, compared to if I stayed home and get my parents a white lunch five in a place down the road. So, yeah.

Sorry, I kind of sighed, I think it would be if I could tell it's just how it's all going to be absolutely fabulous. Yeah, no, think what you're as you're living now, I suppose, testament for that. You know, you've obviously achieved so much because you've been abroad and, know, those things you might have done when you were younger kind of forged you or forged who we are, you know, and a lot of people go and drink too much when they're younger because it's

James Doran (43:32.942)

age to make mistakes. there's actually there's no limit. I say mistakes now. Right. So I'm sure 20 years down the I'll still make mistakes, but I'm learning from them. And as long as I'm magnitude of mistakes and the repercussions aren't, you know, either financially crippling or physically crippling them, I should be fine. Yeah. If you could, I guess, give some advice who wants to go and work in hospitality abroad, what might you tell them? What might

you share with someone who's, you know, just leaving school now, wanting to do what you've done? I'd say kind of, it's not as hard and as overwhelming as it can seem. I definitely think sometimes actually you can get so much further by going on a week's holiday somewhere. like, know, like if you want to live in the French Alps, go for a week's holiday to your favorite ski town and go talk to some bar owners, you know, half of them are English.

or speak good enough English, they'll point you in the right directions, they'll tell you where to go. Say I'm like, go to Greece, go on holiday for a week, you know, you'll talk towards the owners of the businesses. I've never found an owner of a business to be like, they're not going to shoo you away or tell you to get lost, you know, I mean, if they're busy, they might say come back later. But I do find in general, business owners are always happy to kind of help. I think

rather than getting overwhelmed and online there's so much information and there's so many kind of different rabbit holes you can go down. Actually just pick a place that you want, go there for a week and just talk to the people on the ground there. Find a couple of the groups, find the Facebook group that has the local expats in it. I don't know any town that I've been to that doesn't have one and post in there that like, know, you're here for a week and you'd love to, is anyone around to kind of...

meet up or talk through or like talk through how to transition into living there or and there's all our people love to give their opinions right so there's only someone that will come back and like yeah cool I'll meet you for a beer and I'll tell you everything you need to know and they might not be the most helpful person but you know you're getting the information and I think that's definitely the easiest way to kind of do it. Wonderful that's great advice for sure and yeah there's always people with opinions in that way to go so true I guess my next question is

James Doran (45:55.682)

What's next for you? Are you going to keep traveling around? Do you have a destination in mind you want to eventually call home again? Or is it just, know, carpadm I suppose? At some point there probably will be a home. It's funny, like every relationship I've been in has always ended and the mail always turns around to me and says, you know, Vanessa, you're never going to find anyone who's going to want to live your lifestyle. And I'm like, that's fine. I love my lifestyle. You know, like I, if you don't want to be in it.

and this isn't working, that's fine. But like when I think of my year, like this year, I've, know, been in Sri Lanka for two months. I then have been between Italy, Greece, Portugal, France. Like I'm going to South Africa again for two months and then skiing or when, like it's just, I just, it's so great. And I get to do all these experiences with all my favourite people and I can't see when that's gonna stop.

I was like, if you had to pick one place, where would it be? I have no idea. I don't think I found that place yet. I think it will be the people that will keep me in a place. Which is really nice. I think that's a really lovely thing. I 100 % can say it won't be in the UK. But I, yeah, I don't see it. I think it will be, at some point it will be the people that kind of anchored me to the place.

I also own a charity in India. you know, like kind of, yeah, it's really cool. said, that's amazing. I said two words. I was more just reacting to it. That's so cool. What's the charity about? So we're helping women and children specifically, like young girls who've been left on the streets. And women or girls in India are still seen as a liability and not an asset. And, you know, there's still like safe abortion. They're figuring out they've got girls and

there's a lot of horrible things going on so we're trying to get these girls off the street which is really really cool. I've been through quite a lot of things myself, I've nearly died a couple of times, quite a lot of sexual assault, I've been mugged several times you know and then I go to India and these women they have all these things happen all the time and it's a very daily occurrence you know like as a western woman I'm like my god this terrible thing happened that's

James Doran (48:21.95)

was there Tuesday as well as like you know it's it's very I don't say easy for me to help with Western women but it but it is you know like you can you even have to give them money you know just by being there you're helping you know and I remember charity years ago so now I've charity and my business I don't know where my home would be or what where

Yeah, I don't think I'll stop for one. doesn't need to be anywhere I suppose. you really all work you can just keep moving and you know and if someone wants to join you in that journey then you know that's great for them but you don't need someone because you're having his maybe lifestyle and you've got all these friends on these places then you know as long as you're happy it's all matters right. There's all this like all this pressure of people like you know having to

live with people and compromise when you need to. keep doing what you're doing. also, you know, it's amazing your story, what you're saying before. you said, obviously, it's just a Tuesday in India, but it still doesn't mean what's ever happened to you should never be diminished. It's awful and should never happen in any industry or any country, any part of the world. It reminds me of a talk I went to with Annalyn McCall.

She was the actor from 90210. She played one of the main characters, but she did a talk in Oxford where I was studying and she talked about her own experience of sexual assault when she was in New York. And it was someone she knew and all this stuff. But then she now had a charity of, you know, helping people who have been trafficked from Cambodia. And kind of what you were saying, you know, it's happening a lot worse there, but still doesn't make what happened to her.

her or yourself any less horrible or completely, you know, why do men have the, you know, sort of even, know, or the pure selfishness to do that? I'm sorry that happened to you and sorry for my gender. is, yeah. I've been here a lot. And I think, some tricks, right? There's definitely like something that I'd love to

James Doran (50:46.702)

tell people who, you know, want to travel alone. There's definitely like five or six things that you can do that definitely help and make it safer. I have a engagement ring that I wear and honestly, like I think it's probably the most powerful thing that I do out of all the things I do to try and keep safe. It automatically tells another person that

probably knows where you are, like you might be alone. This person probably knows where you are. And they're gonna call you, we're gonna check up on you. You're not as available, I guess, even though sometimes I'm not doing that. And then just like the common sense things of, know, like never saying you're alone, you know, like, I'm just gonna go meet my friends. like, you know, like, there's a lot of, a lot of tips and tricks that you can do and you kind of learn as you're going, like two mobile phones, whether it's,

I carry them both with me. If I ever get stopped and they take my mobile phone I'll give them my old broken one. So I'm not left with that mobile phone. You A burner phone. It's not a burner phone. You can have that one, it's fine. Yeah, there's definitely, you know, there are downsides to travelling alone as a woman, but I think as long as you're aware of things and you know, like always walk with purpose, like you're never lost the amount of time I've walked.

like down a one-way street and I get to the end and like, but I walked with such purpose, you know, like I knew where I was going, I was those men and like, I'm not like, wondering around. My girlfriend's already good at doing that. She's always strong and wrong. She will get off a train or get somewhere and she'll turn in one direction and keep going. And I'm like, it's either way. she goes, but here's the commitment of just, yeah, I just know where you're going. And she's in London for years. It might be some of the thing of just, you know, a of a big city that's populated. You just have to appear like you're, you know,

heading for somewhere where you know you're going. And yeah, for me, I've lived in a big city. guess Liverpool being the biggest Gothenburg is the same place in the back. So yeah, so not that many big cities. So yeah, I've not had that issue. And I'm man. So, you know, it a privilege that I'm learning more and more about over time. But wonderful. You know, wonderful that you do this charity and what's name of the charity? think it's good to find out a more what you do. Friends of India.

James Doran (53:15.97)

Friends of India NGO. It's really cool. It's definitely something that I would like to transition to doing like 90 % of the time and just having my business kind of running itself or selling the company. Yeah, it's really cool. It's really good. very, very, very rewarding and very much needed, I guess, in the rest of the world, which people are very childhood from hearing about, which is unfortunate.

The news is taken up by Gareth Southgate changing his job rather than people going through horrific things, which is a bit unfortunate, it? And you are in business then, guess, people are getting married and want to go on destination wedding. Where might they find you? Mountain Weddings Europe on Instagram is our Instagram handle or mountainweddings.uk. It's fabulous. We specialize in weddings that have jaw-dropping views. So we started off just in the Alps and we have Mont Blanc as the back.

drop all these like glacial lakes and things. And now like I just find the most draw drop locations around Europe and we just do weddings in places. So now you know with venues on cliffs with like dramatic views and like best views you can imagine we have the venues. Which is so fun and so cool right and it just it also makes the wedding so fun like all of our weddings are so fun. They're the best dance floors I've ever seen and the wedding I've been to.

It's allowed us organize not to blow my own number too much, has ever replicated it? Like I feel like, you know, like one of our venues is the, castle that Walt Disney based Sleeping Beauty on. it's like- the Nois van Steen? No, the, Palo de Men- Chateau de Menton in Annecy. I thought it was, I thought it was Schloss Nois van Steen. I must be wrong. It's must be something else. Maybe there's more than one. Well, maybe, maybe, maybe they both claim it. Yeah.

I've been lied to, it's been a lot of money, it's lost its fan stuff. yeah, you can't say that. Couple's married there and that's been like their US wedding. That's just, you know, the venues, the locations, they're just, yeah, it's a really cool business to be in and great that it really encourages me travelling around to find more beautiful places. Incredible. Is there anything else you want to kind of talk about? About your life abroad?

James Doran (55:43.256)

captured most of it but is it burning as you need to say? No, I don't think so. Wonderful. Thank you Vanessa for your time. been great listening to you talk about your passion for it and I guess proving to people that you don't need to use university to have incredible successful lifestyles you've had and especially nowadays where people leave university and they've just got gripping debts and doing the job that they could get when they graduated.

before he graduated because it's a false dream it feels like for lot of people and well done you for not being a sheep you know you'd mourning your own baths I suppose and I'm sure you've met a sheep in the alps or goats bounced but yeah no it's yeah also what a good point like just kind of you don't need to go to university you just like obviously great go to university if you want to but if if you don't

Like I was like, I'm going to my friends are going. I'm literally just, I need to do event management because it's quite broad. I didn't even know I wanted to be a wedding planner. And you go to these places and you know, get all this debt. if you don't, if you didn't want to, if you, you, if you, if you're not like, I really want to learn more about this thing, go travel, go travel first. You can always come back to university, but you learn so much more. And the people that I hire, I will definitely hire someone who has.

lot of travel experience on their CV, someone with a degree any day. It sounds like you kind of cut your teeth by doing it, right? So you now an event planner, a specific event in the wedding, but do the leaves, do hospitality behind the bar. You've done that role of the job. I guess you've learned all the kind of roles in hospitality to be able to deliver the service you delivered, which probably why your dance floors are so much fuller because you've spent so many times in the

you know, dance bars in, in Greece, people go all summer. I'd be thought it'd be there. The only place I'm not which I trumped it or I napped at best. I'm sure it's still pretty amazing. And yeah, no, definitely. it's definitely a wave of, of, of highlights people that is, you know, there's, no wrong way or right way to do something. If you're passionate about something and if in your case, you've proven that well, it's just very,

James Doran (58:10.798)

inspirational to hear from me as someone who spent too much money on university probably. Yeah. Thank you. And I hope you enjoy your many trips that are coming. know, I'm really jealous. I'll be in New York in the end the summer so it's fine. Nice. Yeah. Yes. Awesome. Well, hopefully you have enjoyed the podcast. Yeah, if you have enjoyed it and you have enjoyed this, go

Check out what she does and if you have any questions, reach out to her. I'm sure we'll put your socials on Instagram. We'll shout around and put on the socials. We can find you, ask questions or try and get you to hire their wedding or, know, book it for them. It's very stressful apparently. And then, yeah, if you have enjoyed it and are found in support, please let us know. Please do get in touch and we'll see you next time for the Expert Pod